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Narcissists and religion

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Narcissists and religion

Postby tribeofone » Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:06 pm

I'm interested what the narcissists on here make of religion, especially the theistic ones. I have seen a few Buddhists - are there any practicing Christians, Muslims, Jews...?

Do you just practice a religion because it is useful to you or do you really believe? How do you cope with the demand of submission to god, or with thinks like meekness and love-thy-neighbour?

I'm not religious, just curious.
It shows an excessive tenderness for the world to remove contradiction from it and then to transfer the contradiction to reason, where it is allowed to remain unresolved.

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Re: Narcissists and religion

Postby lolidk » Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:32 pm

Neither of my parents are religious, so I wasn't brought up with it being part of my life. I had no idea what god or Christianity was until sometime in grade school. That being said, it wasn't a belief I was brought up with, therefore, I find it hard to believe, like believing in Santa or something.
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Re: Narcissists and religion

Postby addx » Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:42 pm

Same as with everything else. Religion can be a part of false self image, other than that, NPDers can not trust live people in front of them, you can rest assured that no NPDer really believes in God in any meaningful way.

Having said that, buddhism, not being a religion, I understand instinctively from all this self-exploration and I truly feel that buddhism is a mental discipline rather than religion, it is infact anti-narcissism - truly. In the domain of narcissism the covert narc is the antipod of the overt narc, agonism vs. antagonism, desire vs. fear, attack vs. defense. But buddhism is anti-both, it is anti-narcissism.

The state of nirvana is the anti-state of narcissism. And from this we can see that NoNs are not *that* different from narcissists. IMO, on this spectrum NoNs are far closer to narcissists than to being a buddha.

It is quite interesting how buddha came to be. It seems he was raised in the most narcissistic way possible. Eventually he espaced his golden cage and suddenly flipped to complete ascetism. After years of eating only what was given to him, with declining health he concluded this is not the way to go either and realised the truth of things - the middle way.

For me, it is quite interesting to postulate that he infact was a raised a narcissist and that the state of nirvana actually almost requires NPD as a prerequisite of sorts. NPD erases the self as an object leaving the fear/desire scripted body. When you remove this fear/desire which is what buddhism is about - you're left with nothing - no self(ego) and no fear/desire(id + superego). I actually believe this is the state of nirvana and it requires obliteration of the ego. NPD is actually half way there in a sense.

I do believe that some NPDers actually figure this out - they actually figure the root of their issues and eventually find that buddhism is the single "religion" that actually lends itself to these issues.

The other religions tend to plug up the common fears(and desires) of narcissism with delusions about being rewarded in the afterlife which just doesn't work at all for NPDers.

So, that's my take.
Last edited by addx on Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Narcissists and religion

Postby Nightdrive » Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:47 pm

I am my own authority, so the idea of being submissive to something intangible strikes me as laughable, and I would probably be breaking forum rules were I to say what I think of people who do that.

Buddhism is different, in particular Zen Buddhism. Like addx, I see it as a mental discipline. It's a tool you use to gain clarity of view.
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Re: Narcissists and religion

Postby Anais » Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:01 pm

My take on it is that most fairly well-adjusted Nons do not need buddhism really. It is attractive mainly to N-traited and/or maybe OCD types who have some self-awareness. I would think it is NOT attractive at all to narcissists with no awareness.

Buddha left his wife and very young children to go off and pursue enlightenment. To me that seems a little grandiose. Dude could have helped out the world by putting time into his own children and ya know, taking out the trash and stuff.
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Re: Narcissists and religion

Postby tribeofone » Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:16 pm

interesting what people say about Buddhism - I couldn't quite unedrstand how a path that demands relinquishing the ego could be so appealing to people who, um, cherish theirs quite a bit (assuming there is a difference between ego and self). But yeah, I guess the removal of desire and fear (striving) makes sense.

Doesn't Buddhism require some kind of empathy though, in the sense that it also requires not to hurt others? I read something a while ago about Buddhist monks who sweep the ground before them wherever they go because they do not want to squash a single bug - how does that sit with Narcissism? Is it a selfish investment in your own Karma?
It shows an excessive tenderness for the world to remove contradiction from it and then to transfer the contradiction to reason, where it is allowed to remain unresolved.

G.F.W Hegel
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Re: Narcissists and religion

Postby Chained » Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:34 pm

tribeofone wrote:interesting what people say about Buddhism - I couldn't quite understand how a path that demands relinquishing the ego could be so appealing to people who, um, cherish theirs quite a bit (assuming there is a difference between ego and self). But yeah, I guess the removal of desire and fear (striving) makes sense.

Doesn't Buddhism require some kind of empathy though, in the sense that it also requires not to hurt others? I read something a while ago about Buddhist monks who sweep the ground before them wherever they go because they do not want to squash a single bug - how does that sit with Narcissism? Is it a selfish investment in your own Karma?


The karma bits are much more belief oriented, and thus religious. Zen Buddhism is just about perspective. It is a perspective which tries to reduce the suffering caused by the ego. If YOU don't really exist, then YOU can't suffer. Things just happen, you just happen, nothing means anything, it's all just a story.

It's boils down to this: if something is bothering you, stop giving a crap about it. A Narc can easily do something similar to reduce his suffering. For example: My gf is crazy. I just told her that she is the love of my life, but now she is annoying me. I'll just stop giving a crap about her. Problem solved.

Not giving a crap really is the ultimate problem solver. Although for me it also leads the way to existential angst where life is meaningless, so just stop getting out of bed.
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Re: Narcissists and religion

Postby addx » Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:30 pm

tribeofone wrote:interesting what people say about Buddhism - I couldn't quite unedrstand how a path that demands relinquishing the ego could be so appealing to people who, um, cherish theirs quite a bit (assuming there is a difference between ego and self). But yeah, I guess the removal of desire and fear (striving) makes sense.


In the id-ego-superego terms, ego is self and it doesn't exist in narcissism. NPD features only id + superego.

The million personalities of narcissism is infact id + superego. The personalities are created from external cues being processed by the superego and id in real time. They never settle into a lasting objects in memory, they just flow into each other according to external cues.

Doesn't Buddhism require some kind of empathy though, in the sense that it also requires not to hurt others? I read something a while ago about Buddhist monks who sweep the ground before them wherever they go because they do not want to squash a single bug - how does that sit with Narcissism? Is it a selfish investment in your own Karma?


Well my idea is that NPD is infact quite empathetic, so much that NPDers had to develop defenses against their own empathy.
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Re: Narcissists and religion

Postby BlueFlower » Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:56 pm

addx wrote:Same as with everything else. Religion can be a part of false self image, other than that, NPDers can not trust live people in front of them, you can rest assured that no NPDer really believes in God in any meaningful way.


Can you elaborate on this?

In my experience, Ns use religion to feed their grandiosity (being "chosen" and all) and to judge others harshly using standards they themselves do not uphold. Ns use religion to both admonish others and escape accountability---God forgives me, why can't you? My NM mainly attends church to cultivate vast supply---having a captive audience to all her nonsense just fuels her self-importance. Lots of meaningless relationships to cultivate while she treats her own flesh and blood like garbage.

That being said, I would think "God" would symbolize a parental-type figure to be rebelled against, rather than obeyed and appeased. Maybe this would depend directly upon a narcissist's upbringing? One severely religious N I know believes that God micro-manages every aspect of his life---even stating that his bad behavior is "God allowing the devil to posses me." (WTH?)

IMO, fundamentalist faiths attract lots of N-types, which is scary.
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