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Covert Narcissism is HELL

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Re: Covert Narcissism is HELL

Postby perfectlynumb22 » Sat Jun 22, 2013 5:51 pm

masquerade wrote:This could be one of the most enlightening books you'll ever read.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I%27m_OK,_You%27re_OK


Thanks. I'll give it a look.
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Re: Covert Narcissism is HELL

Postby inevitableaversion » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:51 pm

I understand what you are feeling more than I can express. The thought of being around family or trying to have friends or any kind of social situation is hell to me as well. I always said having a combo of NPD with schizoid is hell cause I am perpetually stuck addicted to the one thing I don't want anything to do with....people. Ive never discussed overt or covert during therapy, so its not something I have ever thought about, but I'm sure I am probably covert as well. My therapist in the beginning used to say "oh you're just an introvert which means you enjoy people in small doses and you need your space sometimes".....I said no you dont understand....I dont enjoy people in ANY amount nor do i EVER have the desire to want another's comapny period EVER and actually the thought of it makes me sick. This was my first day of therapy and she seemed to feel very uncomfortable hearing that. It was funny. She dumped me after about 9 months. I always had trouble keeping a therapist. But I was just honest.

-- Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:56 pm --

perfectlynumb22 wrote:
masquerade wrote:This could be one of the most enlightening books you'll ever read.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I%27m_OK,_You%27re_OK


Thanks. I'll give it a look.



Hilarious....I think this person gave you a link to the exact introvert paper my therapist gave me to read that I was referring to in my post. She had the idea I was an introvert and gave me these papers and I read them right there on the spot and it was crap. NPD has nothing to do with being introverted. I mean yes, you can be an introverted narcissists sure, but when you're dealing with something like NPD, something like introversion at that point just doesn't matter. And, like it says in the paper, "I enjoy family and friends in small doses".......Family and friends dont even need to exist as far as i"m concerned. No small doses about it.
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Re: Covert Narcissism is HELL

Postby perfectlynumb22 » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:08 am

inevitableaversion wrote:I understand what you are feeling more than I can express. The thought of being around family or trying to have friends or any kind of social situation is hell to me as well. I always said having a combo of NPD with schizoid is hell cause I am perpetually stuck addicted to the one thing I don't want anything to do with....people. Ive never discussed overt or covert during therapy, so its not something I have ever thought about, but I'm sure I am probably covert as well. My therapist in the beginning used to say "oh you're just an introvert which means you enjoy people in small doses and you need your space sometimes".....I said no you dont understand....I dont enjoy people in ANY amount nor do i EVER have the desire to want another's comapny period EVER and actually the thought of it makes me sick. This was my first day of therapy and she seemed to feel very uncomfortable hearing that. It was funny. She dumped me after about 9 months. I always had trouble keeping a therapist. But I was just honest.


Thanks dearly, I take great value in your post.

My heart goes out to you because I can see your position is far more hell than mine although I can relate completely to your social repulsion. I don't think I should have to earn love from anybody so thus I don't seek friends. I have family but that's only because they give me unconditional love....which is the only kind of love I should get!

I want to vomit when I feel myself bonding with other men socially. It just feels....gay!
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Re: Covert Narcissism is HELL

Postby addx » Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:17 pm

perfectlynumb22 wrote:I realise most people who read this won't be able to relate and this will just be a hilarious joke and I'm one of those prime candidates you prey on, being an overt narcisstic bully, but whatever...

I've come to realise I'm in hell with covert narcissism. I've recently broken up with my girlfriend because I cannot handle being forced into social situations and have people patronise me, reject me or bully me due to my shyness. I'm hyper sensitive to not getting the recognition I deserve and so being shy I am never going to get the response I think I deserve from people.

I can feel people withdraw, wretch, patronise me once they see me not saying much and being glaringly introverted and it is the equivalent of having a hot poker shoved up my arse. I feel the depression and rage sweep over me and I aggressively and passive aggressively force my way out of that situation no matter how awkward I make the situation.

My girlfriend cannot handle the social abstinence and solitude I placed our relationship into so we had to break up and I understand now that I can't be in a relationship. I must live alone which I don't want to do but know I have to.

The reason why I argue that covert narcissism is hell is that there is no solace. No warm blanket. Overt narcissists at least can use other people for their own means and get what they want to the best of their ability and also get the respect. I cannot.

As a shy person, people treat me like a dog. I realise that normal shy people can accept this but I absolutely CAN NOT.

There are no people to make me feel better. Go round this forum and see oodles of threads of people falling over themselves to give other OVERT narcissists advice after they don't know what to do after their latest heinous abuse they've inflicted on some poor bastard.

Nobody gives a ###$ about me. I'm a freak and not only am I a freak. I'm a freak who cannot accept that he is a freak so I basically have to hide from life to avoid the bleak despair I will inevitably feel.

I have looked at this from every possible angle and I truly believe that being a shy narcissist is one of the most bleak existences a human being can endure.

If there's anyone who can relate I would appreciate your kind words. I know this will probably get 1 or 2 replies at most and everyone else will be amused or repulsed.


I can relate. I seem to be covert if anything. Covert narcs seem to split in an aditional way compared to overt. They want to be loved but have the, interestingly, correct idea that domination is not the way to be loved. This is important. Still a covert narcs strives for the same thing the overt narcs strives, but limited by denying himself a dominant attitude. This is almost impossible. I have actually prospered like this but probably due to an insane IQ or something like that. I am very gifted and the world could not miss it no matter how unambitious I was. I hate ambition from the bottom of my soul. I also seem to also hate overt narcs. And I suspect my older brother is one and is probably the cause of my covertness. It was the only way two narcs could exists in the same space.

People can not make you feel better because you are not connected to them. Probably, just as me, you have NEVER felt connected, secure, safe. Without those we are lost and left to quench ever rising anxiety with dreams, plans, goals. Being disabled from dominant behavior like me and you severly cripples our ability to chase goals. So we are lot more anxious. And often do more damage.

I often think I need to live alone because the others simply wear me out and I seem to get nothing in return. I want to have a family for some reason(being normal?) but I fear I will have no connection even to my kids as I don't have a connection to any other kid or person. With people I can talk about interesting topics, but not with kids as they're not smart... etc.

Please read my topic Can you relate to this (hint of NPD cure). Read my precise explanations and see if it matches you.

I wholeheartedly agree that Covert NPD is hell on earth and NPD literature does not do this fact justice. NPDers are seriously bashed in literature and yet these people could never understand the torment in our heads with which we live
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Re: Covert Narcissism is HELL

Postby katana » Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:30 pm

Not everyone treats shy people like $#%^. If you find you are being treated like $#%^, either you are percieving people as treating you like $#%^ when they're not for some reason, or you have been surrounded by people who have treated you like $#%^. Gravitating towards people like that is also a sign there is a problem.

It would also make sense for a person with NPD who needs to them self one way but on a deeper level feels that they cannot live up to that need.

addx wrote:"I am very gifted and the world could not miss it no matter how unambitious I was. I hate ambition from the bottom of my soul. I also seem to also hate overt narcs. And I suspect my older brother is one and is probably the cause of my covertness. It was the only way two narcs could exists in the same space.


Its very unlikely to be anything to do with "2 narcissists existing in the same space".

I think the idea is when a child has a narcissistic parent and develops narcissism in most cases they can either become like the parent, or they can reject the parent's narcissism and develop their own opposing version. Its possible an older sibling could have an influence, but it probably isn't to do with sharing the same space and needing a space to fit into because defence mechanisms aren't generally adaptive traits, they tend to be reactive.
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Re: Covert Narcissism is HELL

Postby addx » Sat Jun 29, 2013 11:05 am

katana wrote:
addx wrote:"I am very gifted and the world could not miss it no matter how unambitious I was. I hate ambition from the bottom of my soul. I also seem to also hate overt narcs. And I suspect my older brother is one and is probably the cause of my covertness. It was the only way two narcs could exists in the same space.



Its very unlikely to be anything to do with "2 narcissists existing in the same space".

I think the idea is when a child has a narcissistic parent and develops narcissism in most cases they can either become like the parent, or they can reject the parent's narcissism and develop their own opposing version. Its possible an older sibling could have an influence, but it probably isn't to do with sharing the same space and needing a space to fit into because defence mechanisms aren't generally adaptive traits, they tend to be reactive.


I beg to differ, I am still very dinsticly supersensitive to my brothers negative mood cues and have learnt to avoid narcissistic injury towards him in very early age as he had no issues with letting his narcissist rage on me. I instincly understand narcissism from interactions with my brother, not my parents. im mostly indiferenet to my parents who's upbringing was relatively cold and passive but not manipulative. I was not mentally abused by my parents. They were demanding just as any others but did not play any mind games on me or submit me into abnormal situations. If anything, my older brothers (3,5 years older) sadism is the worse influence inflicted on me as a child. I remember not being able to cope with it in various ways.
He entertained himself by blackmailing me(like he'd tell my parents i did something) into doing stuff I didnt like and testing how far I'd go before I break insane and run off and admit to my parents what I did just to take the blackmailing "weapon" away from him. I distincly remember, and I remember very little else, this never ending torture interchanged with him being nice and elating and wanting to play positively. I have a younger brother and he would, for his own amusement group up with the younger brother to make me insane. He tried to do the same with me but i resisted as I did not want to hurt my younger borther, so I always ended up hurt and this probably caused me being more disconnected and playing alone. I am supersupersenstive to him, to his tone, face etc still now when grown up. I am indifferent to my parents and was since early age. I have developed opposing narcness to my older brother and not my parents.

I am similar to my father in some ways but I do not feel him being a narc. He has no narc issues and is a weakling. He is just disconnected but has no superiority issues and seems to live a stable yet not very happy life with a woman he doesnt love and thinks is disturbed. My mother is mentally worse, isolated herself shows signs of paranoia and is most probably a higly troubled narc ended up isolated with a weakling husband that she can't control as he disconnected from her. She goes to church and lives in fantasy alone with just her mother(grandma) as a friend, her mother supports everything she says and that it's. She comforts her self in that she has brought up 3 nice boys and stuff like that but she is lost completely in life. That's it. My older bro is the outright narc, succussfull, leader, making his first million at the age 31, everyone loves him and think he is a great man. He got his rage issues under control during a soul searching period. He still has urges but I can literally see him swallowing the rage, especially when caused by his wife. He knows where it leads and seems determined to stick it out and swallow it, which is good for him.
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Re: Covert Narcissism is HELL

Postby perfectlynumb22 » Sat Jun 29, 2013 4:26 pm

katana wrote:Not everyone treats shy people like $#%^. If you find you are being treated like $#%^, either you are percieving people as treating you like $#%^ when they're not for some reason, or you have been surrounded by people who have treated you like $#%^. Gravitating towards people like that is also a sign there is a problem.


Yes, 99% of outgoing people treat shy people like autists in my 30 years of experience. It's not directly treating someone like $#%^ but it's implying they're autistic and inferior which is unfair. That there is not any point/worth in saying much to them and they aren't an equal.

addx wrote:People can not make you feel better because you are not connected to them. Probably, just as me, you have NEVER felt connected, secure, safe. Without those we are lost and left to quench ever rising anxiety with dreams, plans, goals. Being disabled from dominant behavior like me and you severly cripples our ability to chase goals. So we are lot more anxious. And often do more damage.


Thank you for posting. Your post has definitely rang true to me the most in this thread. I'll definitely comment on your own thread soon.

The hell is always being stuck between the apathy towards everyone and the lost and empty feeling and time which comes from having nothing of myself invested in career/people. The air of everything I do having very little point follows me around like a shadow and I can't see it ever being lifted.
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Re: Covert Narcissism is HELL

Postby TkRage » Sat Jun 29, 2013 9:25 pm

Hmm. I'm generally a confident, dominant figure in society. BUT when I'm in the same social situation with a male dominant figure, I quickly become very shy and insecure. I also feel threatened. Can anyone relate to this?
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Re: Covert Narcissism is HELL

Postby addx » Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:20 pm

TkRage wrote:Hmm. I'm generally a confident, dominant figure in society. BUT when I'm in the same social situation with a male dominant figure, I quickly become very shy and insecure. I also feel threatened. Can anyone relate to this?


Yep. Pretty much the same here. It seems a covert narc thing :/
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Re: Covert Narcissism is HELL

Postby TkRage » Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:38 pm

addx wrote:
TkRage wrote:Hmm. I'm generally a confident, dominant figure in society. BUT when I'm in the same social situation with a male dominant figure, I quickly become very shy and insecure. I also feel threatened. Can anyone relate to this?


Yep. Pretty much the same here. It seems a covert narc thing :/


hmm. Guess im a covert narc with anti social personality traits.
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