Help with Narc defection

Anyone experience this before: I got into a minor disagreement with a covert Narc. He used a passive aggressive tactic on me almost right away. he insulted himself. He said "OK, I guess I'm just a a--hole." It was in a very woe-is-me tone. He was suggesting I was the bad guy without actually saying it. It immediately puts the argument at a dead end. But he added that he always loses the arguments in a very defeatist tone (suggesting he was in a no-win situation) Also very passive aggressive.

He has good guy/bad guy issues. He has to be seen as the good guy. If he feels challenged in anyway then the challenger is the bad guy. He is a victim of his eternal goodness.

Any insight on this? Or on how to react to his passive agressive deflection tactic.

I'm not sure how you really can respond to that except how anyone naturally would if you recognise what it is - not respond to the whole woe is me thing. This feeling isn't something you can sort out for him its something he needs to work through & process himself if he wants to. Doing that takes time.

katana wrote:I'm not sure how you really can respond to that except how anyone naturally would if you recognise what it is - not respond to the whole woe is me thing. This feeling isn't something you can sort out for him its something he needs to work through & process himself if he wants to. Doing that takes time.

Thank you for the response Kat.
I try to be a straight shooter, clear the air type. I have a hard time with passive aggressive behavior because it makes me feel so manipulated. He won't cop to it today. He's making excuses for it instead. It's such a a waste of time. But you make a good point. It's his problem. And it stems from how he feels about himself and not how he feels about me. I hate being vilified by him. I'll just have to find comfort internally knowing I am coming from good intentions even if he tries to manipulate me into thinking otherwise.

The N I severed ties with does that. It's blatant manipulation. I would ignore it and not exhibit anger or any emotion. If he's an N he won't process it. That's understood if you read the N posts on this forum. The best you can hope for is that he won't try that tactic again with you. But don't get complacent. he'll likely try some other form of bull. lol!

My brain can not draw wrong conclusions. It can make a mistake only by having wrong premises. Which can happen when I am misinformed or do not have all the facts. This is how you get a narc to admit he is wrong without causing him to be defensive.

It must be done in a calm, it happens to everybody, tone. Also, the other persons logical reasoning must be shown respect in order to clearly show that your intent is not to discredit his brain but to come to a cooperative conclusion using both your brains and by sharing all facts and knowledge you both have.
I purposefully always like to use that tone for any discussion because it dissipates defensivness wether or not I'm discussing with narcs and it also allows me to be wrong without shame and other to be wrong without me feeling bad about proving them wrong(i'm inverted narc I have to do it like this, no other way).
Avoiding/displacing the possibility of shame means you avoid narc triggers and can talk to the narc ratio and not his amygdala. The possibility of not having all the facts must be present at all times in the discussion and on both sides. This makes the argument safe for both sides to lose without shame.
Infact, the argument then is not won by either side, it is won by logic and both sides feel good as they have cooperatively come to a conclusion and established facts together. Something like that.

Most people can be "defused" to discuss in such a manner, I do it all the time. Some people, with very poor logical reasoning and low IQ can not be "handled" like this. They're just too stupid. Walk away then. You can force it by establishing trust by sharing a story when you "did not have all the facts" or something like that... it might work, it might not... some people are just stubborn and stupid - that's a nasty combination, as I said, walk away then

addx wrote:Infact, the argument then is not won by either side, it is won by logic and both sides feel good as they have cooperatively come to a conclusion and established facts together. Something like that.

Most people can be "defused" to discuss in such a manner, I do it all the time. Some people, with very poor logical reasoning and low IQ can not be "handled" like this. They're just too stupid. Walk away then. You can force it by establishing trust by sharing a story when you "did not have all the facts" or something like that... it might work, it might not... some people are just stubborn and stupid - that's a nasty combination, as I said, walk away then

Thank you! I actually think this is a very healthy minded way to interact with people. I needed that reminder. win-win is the goal.

: )

Atrium wrote:

addx wrote:Infact, the argument then is not won by either side, it is won by logic and both sides feel good as they have cooperatively come to a conclusion and established facts together. Something like that.

Most people can be "defused" to discuss in such a manner, I do it all the time. Some people, with very poor logical reasoning and low IQ can not be "handled" like this. They're just too stupid. Walk away then. You can force it by establishing trust by sharing a story when you "did not have all the facts" or something like that... it might work, it might not... some people are just stubborn and stupid - that's a nasty combination, as I said, walk away then

Thank you! I actually think this is a very healthy minded way to interact with people. I needed that reminder. win-win is the goal.

: )

Call this cynical, but it often happens with irrational people that although they can be led to verbal agreement--through much patient and gentle persuasion--shortly afterward they revert to their original position and the conversation has to be restarted as if it had never happened.

gulf stream wrote:

Atrium wrote:

addx wrote:Infact, the argument then is not won by either side, it is won by logic and both sides feel good as they have cooperatively come to a conclusion and established facts together. Something like that.

Most people can be "defused" to discuss in such a manner, I do it all the time. Some people, with very poor logical reasoning and low IQ can not be "handled" like this. They're just too stupid. Walk away then. You can force it by establishing trust by sharing a story when you "did not have all the facts" or something like that... it might work, it might not... some people are just stubborn and stupid - that's a nasty combination, as I said, walk away then

Thank you! I actually think this is a very healthy minded way to interact with people. I needed that reminder. win-win is the goal.

: )

Call this cynical, but it often happens with irrational people that although they can be led to verbal agreement--through much patient and gentle persuasion--shortly afterward they revert to their original position and the conversation has to be restarted as if it had never happened.

True that, there are definitely people that you can't work it out with, no amount of patience or submissivness, trust establishing or ego stroking will do. It just doesn't compute, heh What you descirbe though is clear cut evidence that effort is futile and you should walk away.

Hi there,
What is wrong with whole heartedly agreeing with him. Yes, he is an arse....hle but hopefully he will learn to do better next time. You are merely confirming his point of view. Nothing to defend at all. Don't expect him to play the card again any time soon. Marg