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To all the Nons from a Narc

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Re: To all the Nons from a Narc

Postby truescarlett » Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:25 pm

I am slightly confused about the dead phase...what about when Narcs are abusive towards someone yet they do not seem to be discarding them as they continue to make efforts for that person to be a part of their lives on a daily basis? I have been on the receiving end of one minute picking/critical sort of behavior yet the person still is the instigator in messaging and talking to me and seems kind fond of me. Is this part and parcel of tapping supply or something I read elsewhere " A Narcissist is purposefully abusive when his relationship with you changes in a way that is not to his liking. This occurs whenever he starts to feel too close to you. Intimacy terrifies a Narcissist, and he will respond by being purposefully abusive in order to push you away."? It is difficult to tell whether you are about to be discarded or whether you are being pushed away for fear of intimacy. Any insight?
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Re: To all the Nons from a Narc

Postby rivergirl » Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:59 am

I found this post to be particularly helpful, and I thank you for writing it. I was having a hard time reconciling to the fact that my Narc was faking or not meaning what he was saying during idealization. There were moments, times, etc, when I could see he was empty behind the eyes, but there were other times when I could see how broken and vulnerable he was. So many other sites out there use such hateful language toward Narcs, but I saw the self-loathing of my Narc, and I don't see the value in hating him. I am three weeks NC, getting stronger every day, and have accepted that I have fallen (and I don't really want to be not fallen as that would mean shutting off everything that is me).

I do have a question, though. You said that everything that comes from us is annoying and a perceived threat. I have not unfriended my Narc on Facebook (nor he me) as he is contracted to work with my non-profit. I have however, hidden him in my feed and changed settings so he sees only a little of what I post. My question is, will seeing my comments on mutual friends' posts seem threatening to him? I will not be passive-aggressive or will ever in any way hint at anything to do with him. I keep my comments light and friendly and on the silly side, but still, I'm trying to fly under his radar and get on with my life as much as possible. I don't know if this makes a difference, but I ended the relationship during D&D (I didn't know that's what it was at the time, I only knew it was a head game). I ended it by saying I loved him but I was done and needed to take care of myself. Does it matter how it ended? I do not want him back (once through that is enough), but I also don't want to provoke him. Thoughts?
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Re: To all the Nons from a Narc

Postby rivergirl » Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:18 am

And another thing too. My Narc when he started the death phase pretty much told me everything that you're saying. One night, I caught him on Facebook at 1:00 am, and said, "You don't have to avoid me anymore. Help me make sense of what's going on with you." He said that he needed to "disappear inside myself," that he'd had a "reality check" about us, that he was profoundly unhappy and had been his whole life, that he didn't know what he was looking for in a relationship, but that he always hit this point where he just couldn't make it work in his brain anymore. He said it happened every time. I asked him what effect my messages were having on him, and he said that each one was more proof that I didn't "get him" anymore than anyone else had. It's just interesting to me that he was articulating some of what you said. I don't know what his level of self-awareness is or if he's had any therapy. We'd never talked about it. We didn't officially end until about a month later after more devaluing until I finally walked away, but it was becoming more aggressive and manipulative at that point, and I knew he was done, even if he wouldn't say it.
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Re: To all the Nons from a Narc

Postby f10a » Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:05 am

WOW!!! All these comments resonate with me so clearly when dealing with my N gf. My confusion is how do I know if its NPD or BPD or both? I have given her space for the last 1.5 weeks while she "thinks about how she feels about me". Then I got a txt from her asking if we could talk. She never called to talk but text later about some superficial stuff. I read that ignoring could be bad, but I dont want to annoy her while she is in her bad place. At this point though I am not sure I have anything more to lose. :?
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Re: To all the Nons from a Narc

Postby inevitableaversion » Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:11 pm

Not a Victim wrote:This is all very touching indeed. How can you explain the selectiveness that narcs exhibit so well? for example, nastiness towards the loved ones - significant others, parents and especially innocent kids, who for sure have no clue or understanding of your complex and misunderstood nature, and at the same time reverence and subservience for someone like your boss? Why you treat the people who love you badly, while you would never consider doing the same towards people who you depend on - like your supervisor or someone with more power?

Somehow your conflicted nature is suddenly kept in check.

Very curious.


There are two types of people to the narc. There are people we feed from and all other people. For me there are a lot of people, such as some co-workers, boss, and family etc... that I just go on auto-pilot around. Its kind of a set personality that I don't have to put any energy into or think about. I know who these people expect me to be and i have observed them long enough to know just the bare minimum I have to do to appease them and stay under their radar i suppose. What I mean by staying under the radar is doing just enough without provoking them to ask questions, or want anything more from me.

Now with my family its interesting because they have known me my whole life. They have seen me as a child and they all already know how weird i am, so my auto-pilot for them can seem rude because I don't even have to turn on the additional switch of appearing nice. They know I am mean and they know i don't talk to them and they know there is something off with me so there is no pressure there. I'm not normal and they already know that so no need to try. I made my aunt ball her eyes out one year around the holidays just because I talked to her. Thought that was so weird, but it gives you an idea of how much I ignore my family because I can. I don't do this to be mean either. I do it because that is what is most comfortable to me. I don't get anything from my family emotionally, so if I was to give something to them then I would just be expending energy without any return. This doesn't mean I don't have issues at work. I have had troubles with co-workers and I have made my boss cry a few times, but only because I knew I had the upper hand at that time because I was making her lots of money. I am more careful what I say and how I appear right now to my boss because I quit and got re-hired and i don't have the same clout I once had. I have went off on a few co-workers when i feel they have dis-respected me. but, all these people to me are considered "the other people". I don't intentionally try to feed from them. They can be a side supply at times if I feel they are jealous of me in some way or other things but they are insignificant to me. So they mostly get the auto-pilot version of me.

Now for people I do all my feeding from its a very different story indeed. I depend on these people. They are very important to me. More important than my family. Even more important than my own daughter. The only people I feed from are my lovers. I will date both men and women, but I prefer men. These are the only people that give me life. These are the only people that can make me have feelings. Well, good feelings I should say. Yes, I can feel something when my boss or some other person outside my feeding zone compliments me in some way, but its just not my main source and does not suffice. It's these people whom I feed on that are so important to me, but they are also the ones that get to deal with the entirety of my NPD. Well, my daughter has to deal with the entirety of my NPD too of course, but since i don't feed off her my NPD to her just feels like extreme avoidance. NPD to the people we feed from includes isolation, manipulation, and intolerance towards any view of us that does not make us feel perfect. This all takes an extreme amount of effort and energy. I put in the energy because I get so much back out of it. I think each narc feeds from different things in their own way. Its just all a matter of what or who they see as being in their feeding zone that will determine which NPD traits are activated.
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Re: To all the Nons from a Narc

Postby inevitableaversion » Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:09 pm

thatwasthen wrote:I have a question for you. Why does a narcissist hate when you tell them you love them? Why do they hate intimacy and any form of intimacy?



Well I can describe some things for you from my past relationships pertaining to that. First of all I don't always hate intimacy and being told someone loves me. In past relationships guys usually tell me how much they love me within the first month and i instantly feel like the evil queen from the snow white story that collects hearts lol. When they say this to me I feel alive with power and control over them. I have their heart in my collection. This is very different with the relationship I am in now, but for the sake of trying to help you understand things I will dig into my archives of past when I was all so evil lol. I can only speak for myself though. Some narcs might feel differently.

So, the first few times a person says they love me I get a control high from it. If I am in the life stage I can enjoy this high every time they say they love me and I can even feel nice sensations from it, but once I have reached the death stage any kind of intimacy, verbal or physical, is repulsive to me and its so strong that it cannot be hidden. The non detects this change immediately. Narcs find their lovers to be pathetic in the death stage. And like I explained in my reply to roadkill on my topic "are any other N's scared of themselves", we start to sober up in the death stage from being completely drugged out on N supply in the life stage and when we sober up we put you under a microscope and all those things about you that we ignored while feeding from you are now disgusting to us and we feel ashamed that we were feeding off of such an inferior being. We hate ourselves and you even more for "forcing" us to hate ourselves. You are no longer worthy to touch us. We are repulsed by your insignificance and pathetic displays of love or what we narcs see as weakness. Love becomes a weakness, BUT we still use the love for control purposes and can still see the value in that even though we no longer feel elated from it. We now only become elated from controlling you, degrading you and making you feel ever more inferior. You feel love, but we use love. We all use love to feel good really. In the end we are all just doing what ever we have to do to feel good.

-- Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:11 pm --

madjoe wrote:i don't trust ppl with less than 100 posts



Thats all it takes for you to trust someone? lol
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Re: To all the Nons from a Narc

Postby truescarlett » Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:39 am

inevitableaversion wrote:It's these people whom I feed on that are so important to me, but they are also the ones that get to deal with the entirety of my NPD. Well, my daughter has to deal with the entirety of my NPD too of course, but since i don't feed off her my NPD to her just feels like extreme avoidance. NPD to the people we feed from includes isolation, manipulation, and intolerance towards any view of us that does not make us feel perfect.


inevitableaversion wrote:once I have reached the death stage any kind of intimacy, verbal or physical, is repulsive to me and its so strong that it cannot be hidden. The non detects this change immediately. Narcs find their lovers to be pathetic in the death stage. And like I explained in my reply to roadkill on my topic "are any other N's scared of themselves", we start to sober up in the death stage from being completely drugged out on N supply in the life stage and when we sober up we put you under a microscope and all those things about you that we ignored while feeding from you are now disgusting to us and we feel ashamed that we were feeding off of such an inferior being. We hate ourselves and you even more for "forcing" us to hate ourselves. You are no longer worthy to touch us. We are repulsed by your insignificance and pathetic displays of love or what we narcs see as weakness. Love becomes a weakness, BUT we still use the love for control purposes and can still see the value in that even though we no longer feel elated from it. We now only become elated from controlling you, degrading you and making you feel ever more inferior.


Reading these two posts, how would an important person know whether they are in the death stage or not if the N treats them so that they feel the entirety of their NPD normally? I mean from a non's perspective what difference would they actually notice if they are alreay treated with isolation, manipulation and intolerance?
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Re: To all the Nons from a Narc

Postby inevitableaversion » Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:21 pm

cherlyn wrote:Would an N prefer to have someone 'waiting in the wings'? Or to wring all you can from the current person before officially moving on? What's the tipping point where you walk away for good?

This won't go over well, but I sort of understand when an N blames the 'willing' victim. After all, they can leave at any time. I may have some resentment because if I could have gotten away as a child I would have. So I totally don't get people who can and do not.



Having another person on stand by in case the current one runs out is always an ideal situation. This feels very safe to the narc who withers and dies without supply. Although, I have left men many times without having this safety net, so its not a rule set in stone or anything. Tipping points could be anything from a critical comment i couldn't recover from to boredom or if a guy just doesn't get the role he is supposed to play.

Why don't the victims of narcs just leave you ask? Quite simply they don't know they are victims. ALL of my past relationships, and there are a lot, I turn anything and everything around to make it all their fault. They truly think THEY are the ones messing everything up, SO from their perspective I AM the victim. Since becoming self-aware though I have noticed a big change in this behavior and I really want a real relationship with mutual respect. I want real respect from my BF so that I can also respect him. I'm tired of tricking people into thinking and doing things. I finally see how fake it all is and I want something real.
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Re: To all the Nons from a Narc

Postby inevitableaversion » Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:55 pm

truescarlett wrote:I am slightly confused about the dead phase...what about when Narcs are abusive towards someone yet they do not seem to be discarding them as they continue to make efforts for that person to be a part of their lives on a daily basis? I have been on the receiving end of one minute picking/critical sort of behavior yet the person still is the instigator in messaging and talking to me and seems kind fond of me. Is this part and parcel of tapping supply or something I read elsewhere " A Narcissist is purposefully abusive when his relationship with you changes in a way that is not to his liking. This occurs whenever he starts to feel too close to you. Intimacy terrifies a Narcissist, and he will respond by being purposefully abusive in order to push you away."? It is difficult to tell whether you are about to be discarded or whether you are being pushed away for fear of intimacy. Any insight?



The phases I go through from my NPD feel uncontrollable. It feels like it happens no matter what. I have never thought of it as pushing people away out of fear, and I certainly am NEVER abusive on purpose just for the sake of being abusive to get rid of somebody. I could be wrong. I am still trying to figure myself out, but it really doesn't feel like I am doing my NPD stuff for that reason.

The reason the narc still keeps someone around in the death stage even though they no longer feel much is complex. First of all, as I have explained elsewhere on here, the narc mourns the loss of themselves when they die. They enjoy feeling like they are in love and they hope everything they say is true in the life stage. We put a lot of hard work into a person during the life stage so much so that we are exhausted beyond belief once death stage occurs. Deep down in the narc we hope our efforts were not a waste of time and we think maybe we can get some semblance of feeling to return. Plus, as I have said, narcs can still feed in the death stage from winning challenges with you, controlling you etc.. They become extra critical in hopes they can change whatever it is about you they find repulsive so that maybe the feeding process can continue. Sometimes certain relationships will be dragged out by the narc while doing all these things. Now if you take all this and correlate it with a narc that is not self-aware, then yes the relationship might continue beyond the expiration date of the narc. The unaware narc has not acknowledged his patterns and cycles yet. When they are winning challenges and controlling you, they really think you are actually challenging them and they really think you do horrible things that need to be controlled. They think they are in the right and you are wrong. Everything they are doing is beneficial to you and your relationship they think even though deep down they feel they are protecting only themselves because your challenges and issues that need to be controlled are threatening the way they feel about themselves. The narc doesn't realize they are just doing their old routine and so does whatever produces supply. Most all affection shown to you at this point is a routine chore to the narc to keep you stationary until they are positive you are useless. Unaware narcs have a hard time letting go if they feel they can mold you just so. Some just really enjoy the supply from playing games with you too.
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Re: To all the Nons from a Narc

Postby truescarlett » Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:12 pm

What you have said really does piece together I have to say from behaviour I have seen before from Ns... If you don't mind would you mind answering the last post of mine above as what you have said totally makes sense in terms of what is going on inside the N's head, but I am trying to work out what that translates to in terms of what the non experiences. I know you have said how the N will be to them during the death phase (extra critical etc), but I also note what you said about how they are towards important people. I know they do whatever is necessary to tap supply but it also seems that important people also get to see the uglier side of an N personlity during the life phase anyway. Given that they experience that during the life phase what is the difference between the ugly side of the life phase and the death phase in terms of what the non will experience? Or is it a case that although the N may be thinking very differently in each phase the important non may not actually have any way of telling which phase they are in? Thanks very much for all this insight by the way!
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