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Articulating Murky Thoughts

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Articulating Murky Thoughts

Postby OblivionIsAtHand » Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:30 am

Simple question I have here, really. For those of you with a type of disorganized, scattered thought process (I've ceased speculating on what particular disorder, imbalance, what have you causes me to think in such a visually and linguistically offbeat way): what are your best techniques for elucidating, 'normalizing' - by this I mean explaining to what you could call your 'average' person - those muddled, intricate thoughts or concepts that seem to make sense innately within your internal monologue but fall apart when trying to verbalize? I mean to say, is there a process that helps you that you can explain or break down?
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Re: Articulating Murky Thoughts

Postby Chrysaor686 » Wed Nov 23, 2016 1:06 pm

Basically, you have to understand that some things exist beyond a normal vernacular of cognizance, and speaking with metaphors is hard to do without God flying you.
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Re: Articulating Murky Thoughts

Postby OblivionIsAtHand » Wed Nov 23, 2016 6:40 pm

Alright. Anyone else?
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Re: Articulating Murky Thoughts

Postby caughtinafray » Wed Nov 23, 2016 10:01 pm

This is a big problem of mine. I've heard accounts of people benefiting, in terms of mental clarity as well as emotionally, from journaling. Preferably in handwriting, but it can also help in text. I don't have any major success story of my own, but there are proven therapeutic benefits of writing down your thoughts.

Of course, it's not too quick of a process, rather one that takes patience to see results. Other than that there's things like mindfulness that can clear out the unwanted emotions that tend to cloud our thoughts, assuming that you have complications in that respect.
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Re: Articulating Murky Thoughts

Postby OblivionIsAtHand » Thu Nov 24, 2016 2:21 am

Thanks for that reply. Writing is indeed helpful to some degree; I have a massive tome of my thoughts in word documents. Even just posting some of my thoughts on here has been cathartic. However, I'm also told that a journal can concretize biases that you write out. It's a form of self-therapy I realize, which can be harmful in some respects.

I guess what I'm really looking for is some way to be more concise. Not overly elaborate. I actually tend to listen to people no matter the vernacular and don't have too much difficulty understanding them, but it seems like most people's threshold for complicated speech is low. I've noticed they respond more to aggressive, simple speak. Not ALL people; just those that I mention. Add to this the fact that I speak in an odd way, by nature, for whatever reason. Sometimes i have to speak in a Jeff Goldblum-ian way..parenthetically and so forth. Admittedly some of my bloviating is conscious. Some of it not.

So I'm basically looking for ideas on how to better convey multi-ended, convoluted concepts without losing anyone. Often I can see the darting of their eyes, their loss of interest. Glazed over expression. You can feel people out for a certain temperature, and there's times where I'm absolutely aware that I've lost their focus. There's a lot of people that are predictable in that regard.

Also looking for a way to curb vexatious and stilted ways of speaking that may or may not be of a Schizotypal nature. Or just express myself better in general.
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Re: Articulating Murky Thoughts

Postby caughtinafray » Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:10 am

Hmm.... I guess I was a little off-target. I've long dealt with issues conveying thoughts to others, and as such, can't speak from my experiences. But I think, in regards to speaking in a perplexing manner, it's probably a personality trait. Those of us who are logical and analytical, which I kind of consider myself to be, are less likely to verbally click with types who are more accustomed to things like small talk and "gestures."

Speech habits can't be easy to break, I'm sure, but I think the only way to connect better with people is to understand how they communicate, and emulate it.
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Re: Articulating Murky Thoughts

Postby heracles » Fri Dec 02, 2016 12:31 am

I don't know when it started, maybe when I first started writing in grade school, but I've always been very wordy and meticulous about style. It almost feels unnatural for me to write or speak in the casual vernacular that most people seem to do, but I often feel self-conscious about my "perfectionism" in this. I've thought sometimes it might be narcissism or Asperger's, but I'm really not sure. I'm sure I also come off as affectedly melodramatic in trying to explain "my angst". I've made one person "cringe" with my signature, and another's found my speech "pretentious", but what am I supposed to do? I'm just trying to explain myself, which seems the rational thing to do on a forum. Aren't we trying to explain ourselves and understand others? Isn't this part of communicating?

My melancholy, my existential anxiety, whatever it should be called, is ultimately ineffable. It might not be possible to put it into words, either it's intensity or effective tone. This is why I sometimes post movie and TV clips and songs that at least might approach what I'm feeling. With these, I guess I'm trying to convey it, to share it, symbolically. But I'm not sure if anybody even gets these, or cares.

Schopenhauer, even if he spoke perfect English, could never explain the feelings of his heart of thoughts of his mind to Gilligan. Hell, maybe he couldn't to your average magna cum laude psychiatrist. I suppose that's just the way it is, and always will be. Maybe we'll always be alone in our own unique angst.
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Re: Articulating Murky Thoughts

Postby OblivionIsAtHand » Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:30 am

Heracles, that post really resonated with me. While I have no assumptions that one can actually be 'on the same wavelength' with another, the complexity of your descriptions of what you consider your peculiarities registered with me; I think our way of articulating things might be somewhat aligned--even down to the very specific hallmark of the jaded: putting things in quotes a good bit..it's a 'technique' I employ a lot. It's an attempt to shield myself from coming across as too vulnerable, or yes, pretentious. To appear earthier, ..more cynical I suppose.

Anyway, none of this is peculiar to me. I, too, have received guff in the past for my overly elaborate manner of speaking, but you might be hypervigilant to criticism like myself and unnecessarily perseverate on past criticisms. Indeed I've wondered if it's my own narcissism and odd blend of perfectionism, or mere overcompensation - a sort of emotional armor. I mean speaking in a peculiar way is natural to me too, so there's that element as well. I don't believe it's all affected on my part.

My melancholy, my existential anxiety, whatever it should be called, is ultimately ineffable. It might not be possible to put it into words, either it's intensity or effective tone.


Yes, certainly. For me, my neuroses are too multi-headed, 'nuanced', and labyrinthine to fully convey into words, but I do try and take a crack at it to partial success sometimes. The author David Foster Wallace is probably the closest one gets to illuminating some of the murk in my brain that I experience that's so hard to put into words---then again, this is neither unique or uncommon to relate to this author, like everyone and his brother who relates to Salinger or Kafka. I get close to some locus of control, but there's always a small void left that escalates..grows. Though for me, it's not the despair that's hard to convey. It's the otherworldly, surreal nature of my life (due to whatever personality disorder/mental hindrance) that adds yet more layers of confusion. Or as you put it, ineffability. Granted, now days are more markedly dreary than simply strange.

Schopenhauer, even if he spoke perfect English, could never explain the feelings of his heart of thoughts of his mind to Gilligan. Hell, maybe he couldn't to your average magna cum laude psychiatrist. I suppose that's just the way it is, and always will be. Maybe we'll always be alone in our own unique angst.


I don't think so, as far as the always being alone in our unique angst. I'm usually the pessimist of any scenario, but here I'll be at least slightly optimistic. Even if you feel like, in the present, you're the only voice in the room vocalizing the most esoteric, alienating $#%^, like-minded folk will slowly trickle down. Sometimes you just have to be the first one to articulate the doubts, confusion, whatever - and there may be a long waiting period. There's all these little microcosms of people out there living their similar private hells that eventually surface and mushroom once you've got the composure to be the first one to broadcast the feelings. This is assuming one doesn't fall completely to the clutches of mental illness and become so far-gone as to speak in Mansonian doublespeak. Although, hell, even Charles Manson has moments of great lucidity and a large, devoted cult following on YouTube.

I know the feeling though. I feel so abstruse in my way of thinking that it's become quite difficult to relate to others. But I keep searching for a sliver of relatability, and I do in fact find it from time to time. Even if the internet with its trove of cultish opportunities leaves me cold. It's doubly alienating when I feel occasional moments of being an outsider even among outsiders.

I'm sure I also come off as affectedly melodramatic in trying to explain "my angst".


I feel this way a good bit too. It's hard to determine how much of my 'drama' is the byproduct of too much privilege and consequently alone time in my head. I'm lead to believe a fair portion of my angst is called for (even though I do not verbalize it in everyday interaction; almost exclusively through the anonymity of the internet), as I genuinely do torture myself in my thoughts--trying to suppress it as long as possible for the sake of not unloading on anyone, and because I can hear all the hateful, cynical inner criticisms I've accumulated,--until I explode. But I'm not a fan of compromise, so I feel no overwhelming urge to curb waxing histrionically on things when I get in these states. The feelings are certainly 100% genuine I can say, at the very least. And they require great expenditure of time to disclose.
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Re: Articulating Murky Thoughts

Postby sunshineNrainbows » Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:46 am

If it's something you know you're going to bring up regularly and it's going to be hard for some people to understand, practice expressing it. Write it in a journal and/or on a forum. Try to figure out which parts of your overall message are most important and touch on those points more than once so they're easier for readers/listeners to keep track of.

In a conversation, it becomes much more important to avoid listing out a bunch of ideas, facts, and/or feelings because it becomes too difficult for most of us to keep track of. If certain ideas are repeated, it makes it easier to understand they're important.
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Re: Articulating Murky Thoughts

Postby OblivionIsAtHand » Fri Dec 09, 2016 1:43 am

If it's something you know you're going to bring up regularly and it's going to be hard for some people to understand, practice expressing it. Write it in a journal and/or on a forum. Try to figure out which parts of your overall message are most important and touch on those points more than once so they're easier for readers/listeners to keep track of.


This certainly rings true some of the time. It helps. I try to do this whenever I can; I rehearse what I'm going to say constantly or I write it out. However, as you know, in the heat of rapid-pace, arbitrary discourse things change significantly. My thoughts - increasingly more slapdash or muddled sometimes, because interaction creates all kinds of barriers to expressing yourself unreservedly..from anxiety or necessary internal judgment. I have plenty of moments of lucidity, where thoughts are firing on all cylinders and communication becomes magically organic. ...Not nearly enough I'm afraid.
In a conversation, it becomes much more important to avoid listing out a bunch of ideas, facts, and/or feelings because it becomes too difficult for most of us to keep track of. If certain ideas are repeated, it makes it easier to understand they're important.


Oh, without question. In conversation I waiver between extreme reticence to mildly complicated bloviating.Not nearly as I would through text. Presently though, out of necessity I get out as much as I can in writing now: through anonymity. Explanations of mental illness may require meandering, discursive descriptions because of its intricate nature. I imagine many are moored to their angst simply because they lack the time to really explain it in all of its complexity, and thus misdiagnoses happen, pertinent details missing that comprise the overall picture. With all of the stock complexity in life, throw in neuroses that make you question yourself constantly---and it's layers more. Sadly, because I myself have at least a reasonable amount of tolerance toward multifarious thinking, I wrongfully project and assume others must. But I don't compromise anyway, out of sheer obstinance. I really detest misunderstandings and used to encounter them frequently, so it's only natural that I should preface myself sufficiently enough to quiet the bevy of arguments...or inner criticisms I'm encountering in my internal dialogue. Leave no detail to chance. Of course, this also means beating simplicity into myself compulsorily, too, so as to extricate myself from a similar weariness of pretension.
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