GF is histrionic - how to help her

Guys, before we generate a sense of mass hysteria here, please remember that any one of us can only speak subjectively. Lots of the people who come here have had horrendous experiences with people who in lots of cases have had severe personality disorders, and haven't sought help. Their experiences are valid, and painful for them. However, firstly we don't know that your girlfriend has a disorder, and secondly, she is willing to seek help. There is a lot of hope for the people who admit they have a problem and seek help.

Please read my posts and the posts of Scarlett1939. She has done a lot of work on herself to conquer HPD. I have also had extensive therapy, turned my life around and no longer meet the criteria for HPD. I don't deny that it hasn't been a struggle, and it's an ongoing process, with bad days, but the good days are now beginning to outweigh the bad.

If your girlfriend is willing to seek therapy, and to work on herself, there is hope.

Please keep us informed of your story, as we'd like to support you.

masquerade wrote:Guys, before we generate a sense of mass hysteria here, please remember that any one of us can only speak subjectively. Lots of the people who come here have had horrendous experiences with people who in lots of cases have had severe personality disorders, and haven't sought help. Their experiences are valid, and painful for them. However, firstly we don't know that your girlfriend has a disorder, and secondly, she is willing to seek help. There is a lot of hope for the people who admit they have a problem and seek help.

Please read my posts and the posts of Scarlett1939. She has done a lot of work on herself to conquer HPD. I have also had extensive therapy, turned my life around and no longer meet the criteria for HPD. I don't deny that it hasn't been a struggle, and it's an ongoing process, with bad days, but the good days are now beginning to outweigh the bad.

If your girlfriend is willing to seek therapy, and to work on herself, there is hope.

Please keep us informed of your story, as we'd like to support you.

Thanks Masquerade, I appreciate your positive feedback! I feel hopeful we can work through this

It can be possible to work through it if you:

1) Encourage her to seek help, and understand that therapy can be a long process

2) Encourage her to speak to her doctor. The PD services, if she has a PD, in the UK vary from region to region and organisations like Mind can advise if there is any difficulty. If you both strongly suspect a PD don't be fobbed off by the professionals if they're not helpful. You may need to make yourselves heard in an assertive, non threatening way.

3) Seek couples counselling

4) Maintain certain boundaries, looking after your own emotional health. Even if she has a PD, it shouldn't be all about your girlfriend. Your needs are equally valid, and you will need to assert them.

5) Seek as much support for yourself as you can.

Xdude is a good guy for you to befriend on here. He's a non, with a very balanced view and his posts are very informative.

Britishperson wrote:Thanks, your srory sounds similar to mine it being long distance, thinking moving closer will help...I wish you had more good news lol

You're welcome. Yes our stories are often related. You have studied your exes behavior, came here for a reason, and I'm confident you will continue to study.

Do not let your ex or anyone invalidate your experiences. No matter who they are or seem to be.

Britishperson wrote:Aren't there any stories of people with histrionic disorder getting better?

Sure, there are stories of people being cured of cancer too. The adverse odds and statistics weren't written by any of us here; however, research them yourself and see what the odds are. By all means do not take the forums word for it.

Big C wrote:Yes. There are a couple here. You could also win the lottery. the odds are about the same.

In my opinon British, I have never seen or witnessed a cured Hpd, but I have seen them adapt. I say this to you for your sake, if she is Hpd. Here on the forums, or on youtube (anywhere where you cannot meet the Hpd or know people who know them in real life), in my opinion is not a reliable standard to change my opinion.

If they are cured, good!

As nons, it isn't our job to cure them, and I feel that the exausted state of mind you mentioned earlier will enhace ten fold if you get sucked into the process of trying to understand or help her.

It was Millon who wrote that of all axis two pd's, it was the Hpd who is most likely to still prefer herself an Hpd due to their use of illnesses to manufacture supply, and that it makes therapy even more difficult to treat someone who refuses to acknoweledge a cure.

In contrast some Bpd's, however, have gotten cured and openly have no problem admitting it. So maybe you could urge her to see a therapist? If she is certain she isn't Hpd, then what does she have to lose in getting a test? Especially since you said she is willing to work with you?

There must be some happy stories of things working out out there?

Things working out?

First let's assume you think there is a problem. That is the first stepping stone required for anyone to experience its solution. However in this case, some will invalidate your ability to determine if there is a problem (even her my minimizing it. like she admits she is selfish but not willing to admit she fits the criteria of "x") because you don't have two Doctorate Degrees in the field you are trying to determine the problem in, and because you don't have 25 years of experience (yes I'm exaggerating a little. It does get tedious though ). So let's address this first:

Layman's terms are one thing (what we say here a lot or what you see in the symptoms and traits of hpd thread), but the shrinks use advaced scoring systems and methods of therapy. The thing is both roads usually lead to the same conclusion as far as the identification process of a pd entails and if they get better through treatment (Whether you're a Dr. Million or a Joe Blow).

For example you know you have a sinus infection (layman's terms of common sense). It is the Doctor's job, however, who runs a culture to decide what type of bacteria is causing the infection, what type of anti-biotics are best to treat it, what the bacteria is resistant to, and what allergies the patient has (the professional way of doing it). Yet the process of the Doctor and the layman to identify the sinus infection is quite basic (yellow drainage dripping from nose. headache, earache, can't breathe through nose. really isn't too hard to indentify any illness, because that is what illnesses do: Manifest themselves through traits and symptoms. Even the Doctor will ask you what symptoms have you been having ) and isn't as sophisticated as some would mislead you to believe through invalidation tactics.

As far as things getting better. A quick run down of the basic forms of therapy they may use (I am assuming you did do your homework, came here for a reason, and that her behavior was a match with what you've read about Hpd. I'm also taking her own admission of being selfish and overreacting at face value. Just like a Doctor would take at face value ones own admission for saying they had pain in a certain area) is CBT/DBT (do some research if you like on it).

Everyone here knows this, for the most part. However, my take is those forms of therapy are outdated as more modern forms of therapy are becoming popular in treating axis 1, and 2 pd's. Surprisingly, I have not seen them mentioned here, even by the pd's in treatment .

For instance The Structural Analysis of Social Behavior (SASB), I have not seen mentioned here, nor the integration of SASB Internal Modifiers into the pd's introject (self-systems), and this is to only touch the surface of the more cutting edge systems being used to deal with pd's within a professional context (not the cookie cutter CBT/DBT models of therapy).

If you do go through therapy, make sure the person is well acquianted with pd's before you go. I'd recommend researching the SASB more if the relationship or the potential pd goes into therapy because it provides:

Clear guidlines that can be used by the practicioner
Causal determinants
Driving Axis 1 or Axis 2 pd's
Intrapersonal or Interpersonal dynamics
A Powerful Impact On Psychiatric Diagnosis

Now, Bristish, hopefully you won't need to get that far and get into a win/win relationship with someone else.

PS. You already know I am not giving you medical advice. My advice is, especially if you do go to theapy and she really is a pd, is to get out ASAP. If she isn't pd, but is selfish, emotionally draining, and overreacting. Plus telling you how to express your feelings (be gentle when you tell her she's being emotionally rough ), my advice is to run, run, run!

You seem to want to help her, though, and to try to save the relationship, so I went into some extra facts you may wish to research that tie into some treatment options along with a very predictable Prognosis.

One thing for certain, if you take emotional abuse lightly and undermine your own concerns, there will be hysteria. Gobs and gobs of it!

All the best.

It was Millon who wrote that of all axis two pd's, it was the Hpd who is most likely to still prefer herself an Hpd due to their use of illnesses to manufacture supply, and that it makes therapy even more difficult to treat someone who refuses to acknoweledge a cure

I don't get that part.. Do you mean she will refuse to acknowledge a cure since she will refuse to acknowledge she has a disorder?

like she admits she is selfish but not willing to admit she fits the criteria of "x"

What if she admits she is selfish and is convinced to be narcissistic ...because she indeed shares many traits with Npd... but if you look at the overall picture, she fits better the Hpd, (like being fully aware she is selfish, but not aware of all the ''attention hunger'' she has...

ddca wrote:It was Millon who wrote that of all axis two pd's, it was the Hpd who is most likely to still prefer herself an Hpd due to their use of illnesses to manufacture supply, and that it makes therapy even more difficult to treat someone who refuses to acknoweledge a cure

I don't get that part.. Do you mean she will refuse to acknowledge a cure since she will refuse to acknowledge she has a disorder?

Ah, good question as I did not clarify correctly. I mean that an Hpd who enters therapy, even if she does make progress and no longer fits the criteria necessary for Hpd, that she will still think she is Hpd. This has phenomena has been argued many different ways of course, an interesting one being that the Hpd somehow suffers from a form of PTSD due to the trama that Hpd left her with, (sort of like a war veteran who, even though the war is long over, still has flashbacks and thinks people are out to get him. best way I can put it).

This would mean that Hpd, out of all the cluster b mental illnesses, suffers far more tremendously than most people would believe inside herself, and that the experiences she went through were absolutely devestating. I have even read that the Hpd (according to this view) went through such a difficult life that it was as if they never existed or had their own identity (and of course they made sub-arguments to support that). They tied in this lack of identity to their powerful ability to mirror others, because never having an identity of their own (they said it was like they lived life as a blank piece of paper) is what motivated them and caused them to draw upon instictive skills to absorb and mirror the identity of others.

There is an even far more deeper piece that ties into this theory, but it would take too long to get into it.

Now, there are plenty of preclusion arguments to what I have just written. One is that Bpd is more likely to cause that type of damage (PTSD damage) to the individual and not Hpd.

Another arguement as to why the Hpd won't acknowledge she has recovered (instead of insisting she is still in recovery), is because somehow she feels safe believing she is still in recovery when in fact she has recovered (the infantile Hpd, if my memory serves me right)-tying this into Hpd and illnesses, because even if the Hpd is not sick, she is aware that one day she may be sick, so the Hpd gets stuck into a belief system revolving around illnesses (and if the physical illnesses are not present, then they will cling to mental illnesses: So like even if they felt they had Hpd under control, but were not willing to belief they were cured, they would search out other illnesses that Hpd is comorbid with, as an example).

The end result is an everlasting loop of recovery from some illness. They, if I remember, tied this into a belief I never heard before:

That the Hpd is a perfectionist (this is the Hpd subtype Millon writes about that is the obsessive compulsive personsality disorder subtype, which has a big emphasis on perfectionism).

They were talking about that is the reason why they pay so much attention to their appearance, to their image (to them, them, and them). So an illness will drive them crazy, because something is wrong with them (preventing them from being perfect). Anyway as a result of the Hpd being a perfectionist (hey i never heard it before, it wasn't my theory, but it had a lot of unique interesting points to it) that they never can feel cured or recovered, although they can feel improved.

Because they never feel perfect (physically or mentally).

Take even some of the most beautiful Hpd's: I have never seen one consistently belief that she was as pretty as she really was. Sure they have their moments but always revert to doubting themselves.

I've become a fan of Millon's work over the years, and one thing that always stands out in my mind is what seemed to be his extra detail describing Hpd's:

He wrote more sub types of Hpd than any other cluster b pd. Moreover the other pd's often had a subtype of histrionic.

This means, according to Millon's writings, he wrote more about Hpd than any other pd (whether he did this knowingly or unknowingly I don't know). Yes Hpd had narc traits, and many of them had triats of each other. But if you add it all up, the one pd he refers to again and again is the Histrionic. In a direct way or when he is talking about another illness. In fact even in cluster a,c pd's he will still at times mention histrionic traits.

Obviously there is far more too it but there are tons of books Millon wrote on the subject you might find interesting if you haven't read them already:

http://www.millon.net/content/books.htm#therapy

I realize some do not agree with some pieces of Millon's work but I feel he is an excellent resource, personally.

Bet he doesn't agree with the removal of Hpd from the Dsm

like she admits she is selfish but not willing to admit she fits the criteria of "x"

What if she admits she is selfish and is convinced to be narcissistic ...because she indeed shares many traits with Npd... but if you look at the overall picture, she fits better the Hpd, (like being fully aware she is selfish, but not aware of all the ''attention hunger'' she has...

ddca I totally agree with you. Maybe we should ask British to elaborate on her selfishness to get a better picture of her narcissistic traits? What tripped me out what how she told him to be gentle when he told her what he didn't like she was doing. I don't know, did that strike a cord with you? For one British seems laidback in his posts. Let me ask him right quick:

(Quick question for British: Did you come at her aggressively when you expressed yourself to her that you felt she had issues? Weren't you being gentle then, or were you being mean? If you were being laidback, and she said be gentle when you tell her how she is hurting you and causing you pain, that was out of context because you weren't being mean to begin with. This ties into other things if it is so).

Back to ddca's post: So are you saying that British could convince her of that first, that she is narcissistic (cause she did say she was selfish), and that this would be a starting point for him to get her foot in the door for therapy?

(Note For Mods: I have by accident hit the report button numerous times on my way to hit the edit button due to a severe problem with the quote feature I did not know how to fix).

jmJMjm wrote:

Britishperson wrote:Thanks, your srory sounds similar to mine it being long distance, thinking moving closer will help...I wish you had more good news lol

You're welcome. Yes our stories are often related. You have studied your exes behavior, came here for a reason, and I'm confident you will continue to study.

Hang on, she's not my ex yet lol. We managed to patch things up (took three days of being firm for her to calm down completely, but I didn't back down and she accepted it) I haven't been spending much tme with herrecently as I do need to recharge my batteries a bit, you're right, I do need some time to myself. Most of the time she's the most wonderful gf in the world, just sometimes she has these moments where she acts so childishly

If they are cured, good!

As nons, it isn't our job to cure them, and I feel that the exausted state of mind you mentioned earlier will enhace ten fold if you get sucked into the process of trying to understand or help her.



In contrast some Bpd's, however, have gotten cured and openly have no problem admitting it. So maybe you could urge her to see a therapist? If she is certain she isn't Hpd, then what does she have to lose in getting a test? Especially since you said she is willing to work with you?

Things are a bit more complicated for me, she's a foreign national, if she sees a pscychiatrist now it will prevent her from being allowed back into the country However I know she is trying to make an effort, and I know she won't change overnight so it's good








PS. You already know I am not giving you medical advice. My advice is, especially if you do go to theapy and she really is a pd, is to get out ASAP. If she isn't pd, but is selfish, emotionally draining, and overreacting. Plus telling you how to express your feelings (be gentle when you tell her she's being emotionally rough ), my advice is to run, run, run!

You seem to want to help her, though, and to try to save the relationship, so I went into some extra facts you may wish to research that tie into some treatment options along with a very predictable Prognosis.

All the best.

Hi British,

From the list of HPD symptoms below. Can you describe which ones she is showing on a "consistant " basis and provide examples? Does she have friends? If so mainly male or female? What is the relationship, with her parents and family like? Any history of mental illness in the family? Did she suffer from any trauma or abuse or rape etc....What is her past relationship history? Does she have a steady employment and education history?

The one paragraph, you wrote really doesn't indicate much. Can you provide more detail?

Symptoms

Constantly seeking reassurance or approval
Excessive dramatics with exaggerated displays of emotion
Excessive sensitivity to criticism or disapproval
Inappropriately seductive appearance or behavior
Overly concerned with physical appearance
Tendency to believe that relationships are more intimate than they actually are
Self-centeredness, uncomfortable when not the center of attention
Low tolerance for frustration or delayed gratification
Rapidly shifting emotional states that appear shallow to others
Opinions are easily influenced by other people, but difficult to back up with details

oksayhi212 wrote:Hi British,

The one paragraph, you wrote really doesn't indicate much. Can you provide more detail?

That ran through my mind too but remember him saying,

I've worked out my girlfriend was histrionic

So I figured he bypassed a lot of stuff, the symptoms we all know are part of hpd. However I did ponder if even what he said had any hpd indicators:


Self-centeredness, uncomfortable when not the center of attention (she's selfish)
Excessive sensitivity to criticism or disapproval (she told him to be gentle when he expressed his disapproval)
Rapidly shifting emotional states that appear shallow to others (exactly what causes people to chornically overreact, the issues they fight over seem shallow and thus their emotions behind non-authentic issues makes them look shallow as well-if the issues were valid, don't feel ones overreacting would be an issue. Well overreacting is a result of a rapidly shifting emotional state!).

Then there were the maybe's

Low tolerance for frustration or delayed gratification (selfish behavior: delayed gratification, and the manifestation of her low tolerace is evident when she overreacts)

Then the shot in the dark maybe just to think about the possiblity,

Opinions are easily influenced by other people, but difficult to back up with details (look how easy she seemed to be influenced by him that she had stuff to work and said she was selfish and overreactive but gave no detial as to what the problem was, instead, she said what the problem was not which was hpd. But why?

As for these,

Inappropriately seductive appearance or behavior
Overly concerned with physical appearance
I think because the above traits are frequently of interest to nons is they are so easy to know for certain, because a boyfriend could easily know if they are true or false).

And yes, I know those were simply some thoughts and ideas going on what little he said. Since he said he came to the conclusion on his own and has dealth with her, I know what it's like to need no further indicators myself to feel the need to mention them because it would only be like repeating so many stories here.

Same story, different town?

Selfishness (to the point it came up, she mentioned it, and its causing mental exausting), is a strong indicator that she puts and wants her needs to be more important than others, and that is a telltale pd sign manfest in disordered relationships).

Anyway OKsayhi, you're right that it would have been kool to have heard more detail, but I guess if he came to this conclusion he must have googled the symptoms and had a lightbulb moment of some sort to say the least.

Well from what bit he did say I wondered about the detail too, so thank you for the specific lines of questioning!

Does she have a steady employment and education history?

Jm,

No one is trying to invalidate how British feels or his reason's for coming here. Nor should you passive aggressively try to invalidate my questions to him.

You thought of asking for more detail but didn't. Sorry, but I did. Up to him, whether he sees any value in answering my questions or not. It might help him, determine whether he is going down the right path or not, before just jumping to conclusions and telling him to "run". Again, up to him to determine whether he sees value in answering them or not.

OK