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NO CONTACT!!!!

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NO CONTACT!!!!

Postby Rockstar78 » Sat Mar 27, 2010 8:12 am

I read a lot and I don't post much. For all of you that are new to HPD and all that are currently struggling with an HPD, the one thing that has helped me to hear over and over in this forum is NO CONTACT. These vicious people will destroy you. My fairly tale life has been ripped to shreds by my HPD. After an episode your HPD will never contact you becuase they have a constant "SUPPLY" that they nuture and cultivate all the time, they don't need you. But when you contact them they will welcome you with open arms SO THEY CAN USE YOU AGAIN!!!.... I've been on this demoralizing cycle for 5 years with my HPD. I've never felt more loved by a woman and I truly beleive she is in love with me, but she is so damaged by whatever causes this disorder that I can't reel her out of it. Her fear of abandonmant and insecurity casues her to cultivate her supply of "Plan B's" and other men. Just when we are making meaningful progress and couldn't be closer and more in love in our relationship, she sabotages it.... I just have to keep saying to myself, no contact, No Contact, NO CONTACT!!!!

Sometimes we contact our HPD's because we are so bewildered at their actions, sometimes because we actually believe their lies and cover ups afterwards, sometimes becasue we think we can fix them, sometimes becasue they seem remorsefull, sometimes because we think we've done something wrong, sometimes because we want to play the game, sometimes becasue they are like and addictive drug, sometimes because we've learn about their problem and have empathy for them and sometimes becasue we are just hurt and lonely. MOSTLY we contact our HPD's becasue they welcome us back with open arms SO THEY CAN USE US AGAIN!!! NO CONTACT, NO CONTACT, NO CONTACT!!!!

Many of us can't break free, it's an endless cycle of euphoria and dispare. I have one more suggestion for you... I know another person that has broke free, we have talked endlessly about HPD. The thing I suggest(because it worked) is that when you and your HPD are broke up or away from eachother, date as many other people as possible and pray you find the person that can show you real love and also provide the euphoria you feel with your HPD without the torturous existence you are living now. That is what my friend did to break free... It is what I am doing too... I haven't found that person yet and I have hurt many wonderful people because i keep getting sucked back in by my HPD, but It will happen for me too.... it has to, or my very life may end at the hands of this woman and one of her violent Borderline episodes. Yes, she is a "Cluster B'... HPD, ASPD, NPD & BPD in that order with the range weighted towards the HPD side.

All the best to you... I pray for you all.... Rockstar
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Re: NO CONTACT!!!!

Postby zane » Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:28 am

this is what im trying with this HPD girl i live with now, i have found when i stop giving hes so much attention she gives me more attention but if i give her to much attention she acts like shes bored with my attention and gives me no attention.

so i give her like attention 40% attention and 60% non attention, i dont cut her off form the attention i just give her less so so gives me more attention so she can get more attention herself

sorry if im confusing anyone lol but this seems to work for me
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Re: NO CONTACT!!!!

Postby Bam » Sat Mar 27, 2010 12:12 pm

Rockstar78 wrote:Sometimes we contact our HPD's because we are so bewildered at their actions, sometimes because we actually believe their lies and cover ups afterwards, sometimes becasue we think we can fix them, sometimes becasue they seem remorsefull, sometimes because we think we've done something wrong, sometimes because we want to play the game, sometimes becasue they are like and addictive drug, sometimes because we've learn about their problem and have empathy for them and sometimes becasue we are just hurt and lonely. MOSTLY we contact our HPD's becasue they welcome us back with open arms


Spot on Rockstar (except you forgot the one about thinking we can turn off our emotions and just be return for the great sex!). I have gone back or contacted over the last 4 years for each and every one of the reasons (self justifications) you mentioned, and more than once each. Now I realise that I was self defeating. I am currently staying strong in NC and I'm finding that the more time that passes, the more I feel like I am walking out of a fog and I marvel at how vision obscuring that fog has been. I marvel at how clear it is to me now that it is impossible to move on when you know in the back of your mind that you can still go back if you want to or if your feeling lonely - just one more time! How many times did I say that to myself? 'Just one more time - how can that hurt?'
Rockstar, 5 years is a big chunk of your life to surrender to another. To me, life spent with this type of person is NOT life lived for yourself, with your best interests in the forefront, it is NOT life lived that advances your sense of self and nurturing of yourself. I see the time as life sacrificed to another. I hope that you can love yourself, and put your needs, wants and desires for your life spent on this earth up to a higher priority and stick to the NC. Believe me, it gets easier and you marvel at how long you lived in a fog without even realising. I think the dating other people may help to fill the void (this void is there when ANY relationship or habit is left behind) but I think it even more important to become comfortable with spending time with yourself, knowing yourself, respecting yourself, healing yourself and loving yourself. Then you can take a complete and competent person into your next relationship. Life (to me) is about living, learning, experiencing, learning, developing with wisdom and insight and taking all that forward with you in this journey.
Best of luck and warm wishes.
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Re: NO CONTACT!!!!

Postby sofrance1 » Sat Mar 27, 2010 12:48 pm

"These viscious people will destroy you"? No generalisation/sweeping statements/stereotyping at all there then. How open minded and level headed of you. I have HPD so thank you for confirming to me that I am viscious and trying to destroy people. I had not realised it before your insight into me. Right I better get off this forum and go and visciously destroy some people. Excuse me.
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Re: NO CONTACT!!!!

Postby Bam » Sat Mar 27, 2010 1:06 pm

sofrance1 wrote:"These viscious people will destroy you"? No generalisation/sweeping statements/stereotyping at all there then. How open minded and level headed of you. I have HPD so thank you for confirming to me that I am viscious and trying to destroy people. I had not realised it before your insight into me. Right I better get off this forum and go and visciously destroy some people. Excuse me.


Hey Sofrance, I understand your reaction to Rockstar's comment but read it in context and recognise this is a person who is hurting and is venting his frustration. You do not fit his description, you are here (I hope) because you are wanting to understand and help yourself. Ive read many of your posts and would like to say that if I am right (in the reason your here) that I send you warm regards and much respect. It takes strength to self reflect and accept and decide to take ownership of oneself. I would also say that you wont get as much out of this forum as you could if you CHOOSE to focus on rawly expressed emotions some people here myt feel the need to express. There are plenty of threads where this isnt the theme and if you really want to move forward with your life and self understanding then I would suggest you select to spend your energy in a more constructive to your needs thread. Perhaps even start one yourself as you'll find many accepting, caring, perceptive, intelligent and empathetic people here, regardless of what side of the fence you're on. I only offer this advice as I know from my own experience how self defeating (and easy!) it is to focus on that which is not constructive to our aims and our own interests. Your choice, you can spend a lifetime on this forum responding and getting upset or insulted by posts here or you can engage with the ones more suited to your personal aims. These people are not directing their words of hurt towards you so it is your choice to internalise and make them towards you or not. As I see it, you are rather unique in having HPD and being here -so much respect and admiration to you and I hope that you choose to make the most of what this forum can offer you.
All the best.
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Re: NO CONTACT!!!!

Postby Rockstar78 » Sat Mar 27, 2010 7:48 pm

Bam, thank you for your support and understanding, yes I totally forgot to say that I have gone back for every one of my reasons more than once and mostly becasue I am so emotionally involved. Many times I have thought I could turn off my emotions, and have, just for the great sex... but then I start to beleive we are going to make it this time, only to get sucked in and trampled on again. She loves me and wants to be with me, I truly feel it, but she is so afraid and insecure herself, when she gets close to a break through to the happiness she seeks so badly, her emotional protection mechanisms kick in....

Sofrance, I do empathize becasue I've want to help my HPD so desperately, but it has been brutal... I commend you for admitting your challenges, I wish my HPD had your honesty and deisre to help herself. I wish you the absolute best...

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Re: NO CONTACT!!!!

Postby sofrance1 » Sun Mar 28, 2010 8:08 am

Actually I am not on this forum looking to change myself/heal/etc etc etc and Rockstar your post is highly patronising. You are talking to someone with a personality disorder, not a child with special needs.

I am perfectly happy with who I am, HPD and all. I simply find the subject an interesting one and as this is an HPD discussion forum and not a victim support forum I post on here.

It doesn't matter how much someone has been hurt/upset by someone with suspected HPD, you should not use terms as "these vicious people are trying to destroy us". It is insulting to people with HPD and you absolutely should not use such derogatory, generalising, insulting language in any context whatsoever. If, as an example, you were mugged by a black person, would that give you the right to generalise to all black people and use terms such as "these viscious people", no that would make you a narrow minded racist.

HPD is a personality disorder which means you have the same personality traits as everyone else, you just have them in more extreme versions of those traits or in the case of empathy, none at all. Apart from being insulting I do not think it is helpful to you as a person coming away from a relationship to think of your ex in these terms. Understand the condition and why she behaves like that, don't vilify her and make her into some monster and blame it on HPD.

One of the things that I have picked up on this forum is the "non-HPD's" who have a complete inability to walk away from the relationship. They want to "change" their ex, they want "an apology", but what I find most frightening is the people who talk of their desire for "revenge". Revenge against someone you chose to be involved with because they have a personality disorder. You "non-HPDs", you really are so vicious, stop trying to destroy people.
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Re: NO CONTACT!!!!

Postby newtohpd » Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:01 am

Let me start with a disclaimer that I am not replying to Sofrance, since that will not help anyone. My post is intended for sufferers of the disorder, both nons and PDs, who want to heal and change. My only intention is to hold a mirror to destructive behavior.

I am going to use the words and substance in Sofrance's post to illustrate the reason for No Contact. Besides my HPD ex with whom I am now NC and from whose situation I am now far removed, I still have two colleagues who work for me and who have PD traits (N traits). Since they work for me, I deal with them everyday. While I maintain strict accountability with them, as is expected, dealing with them is very difficult. There are some common traits across all PDs which I have now started to record:

1. Contradictions and double standards:

In Sofrance's post there is a valid argument against generalization -
It is insulting to people with HPD and you absolutely should not use such derogatory, generalising, insulting language in any context whatsoever.


which is contradicted by Sofrance's own outburst in the end -
You "non-HPDs", you really are so vicious, stop trying to destroy people.


It is as if PDs hold you responsible for the same offence, which they don't hold themselves responsible for. They seem incapable of stopping and thinking that they are contradicting themselves and that they are applying one standard to what they expect of you and another of what they themselves do.

2. Introspection and Need for change
Actually I am not on this forum looking to change myself/heal/etc etc etc and Rockstar your post is highly patronising

I am perfectly happy with who I am, HPD and all.


Bam, Rockstar - Save your compassion and empathy for "appropriate" people. This is not something PDs can understand and your intention will be misconstrued as "patronizing". Without any real introspection and need for change, PDs live in a "tit-for-tat" world, and that is the only language they understand. Unless they are willing to change, you have to get your needs met by manipulating them using fear.

3. Twisted Logic and Self-righteousness
It doesn't matter how much someone has been hurt/upset by someone with suspected HPD, you should not use terms as "these vicious people are trying to destroy us".


In a PDs mind, they are the most logical people. Above is an example of their logic. They will minimize their own faults and maximize yours. They will come up with the most arbitrary self-righteous statement and tell you what you should do, but obviously never follow the same themselves.

4. Clever Justifications and Manipulations
If, as an example, you were mugged by a black person, would that give you the right to generalise to all black people and use terms such as "these viscious people", no that would make you a narrow minded racist.


PDs know how to push your buttons. They are aware of a normal's conscience. The "racist" argument above is an example of a clever justification used to manipulate you and put you on the back foot. As a normal, you know that the example is a fallacy, and that not all black people exhibit similar behaviors, whereas PDs have similar patterns of behavior, and that the comparison is just plain shocking. But during the heat of the moment, it is precisely such a shocking argument, aimed to push your conscience button, that puts a normal on the back foot. Hence, instead of holding a PD responsible and accountable for such a disgusting comparison, you tend to self-doubt and go on the defensive. You have just been cleverly manipulated.

5. False empathy
Apart from being insulting I do not think it is helpful to you as a person coming away from a relationship to think of your ex in these terms.


PDs will often advise you on what is good for you. But you will notice that there is no real empathy. You might even fall for it, but you will know that it is not true, since soon afterwards you will hear the real reason:

Understand the condition and why she behaves like that, don't vilify her and make her into some monster and blame it on HPD.


Which will surely be an argument for the PDs own gain. You get nothing unconditional. Everything you get from a PD is conditional.

6. Blame-shifting
One of the things that I have picked up on this forum is the "non-HPD's" who have a complete inability to walk away from the relationship. They want to "change" their ex, they want "an apology", but what I find most frightening is the people who talk of their desire for "revenge". Revenge against someone you chose to be involved with because they have a personality disorder.


Finally, you will be blamed for everything. You CHOSE to get involved with a PD, will be the argument (as if there is a label or a stamp on a PDs forehead that they have a PD). They will want "control", want to change you, seek apologies when you say anything against them, and finally take their revenge by leaving you and going for their next target. Yet the very mention of the same from you will be held against you.

Infact your inability to walk away is considered a liability, since they can do it so easily. Life is fun and games you see, and walking away from "objects" of amusement is considered normal by PDs. Attachment, love, emotions and your investment in a relationship are mere words that have no meaning for PDs. They might even tell you that they are unable to have meaningful relationships but it is just a way of pity-seeking and getting you to sympathize and empathize with them - nothing more, nothing deep, nothing meaningful. Its something that they have picked up from a book or the net, but don't really feel deeply to seek change at all. Infact they don't really feel any need for change (except a few).

For all the above reasons, a dialogue is not possible with a PD who is unaware and doesn't want to change. Without change the only possible way to deal with PDs is No Contact.
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Re: NO CONTACT!!!!

Postby Rockstar78 » Mon Mar 29, 2010 4:18 am

NewtoHPD

WOW... you are not so "newtohpd"... that was the most insightfull response I have ever read on this forum and it has helped me greatly. With the addition of some deeper and more horrific experiences with my HPD (and BTW she is a Cluster B of HPD, APD, NPD & BPD weighted toward the HPD side) you have summed up the last five years of my life. What is becoming increasing interesting to me is the the clinical definitions of HPD seem to leave out the real world actions of an HPD that you describe like; contradications, double standards, no/false empathy, no ability to appreciate sincere efforts to help, justifications for bad behavior, manipulation, blame shifting and the list is tremdously longer. The banter between Sofrance and me should probably continue, if for no other reason that both PD's and Non's can learn from responses like yours based on very clear points made by both Sofrance and me(Rockstar). Thank you newtohph...

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Re: NO CONTACT!!!!

Postby Normal? » Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:02 am

NewtoHPD

This is a great post and extremely helpful to anyone still in the 'fog', and also to anyone with a Cluster B PD. It illustrates exactly how the dynamics work and why - genius!

SoFrance - I know you may disagree with some of New's hypotheses about your post but may I ask - are you aware of the tactics you use with others or is it rather deeply entrenched behaviour that 'comes naturally' more than an attempt to manipulate (if that makes sense). I know we all use some of these in our everyday life and I'm trying to become more aware of them - in myself and others.
This should have been a noble creature:
A goodly frame of glorious elements,
Had they been wisely mingled; as it is,
It is an awful chaos—light and darkness,
And mind and dust, and passions and pure thoughts,
Mix’d, and contending without end or order,
All dormant or destructive.
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