Our partner

Survived the confrontation of an HPD

Histrionic Personality Disorder message board, open discussion, and online support group.

Moderators: masquerade, xdude, orion13213

Forum rules
Attention Please. You are entering the Histrionic Personality Disorder forum. Please read this carefully.

Given the unique propensities of those who are faced with the issues of HPD, topics at times may be uncomfortable for non HP readers. Discussions related to HPD behavior are permitted here, within the context of deeper understanding of the commonalties shared by members. Indulging or encouraging these urges is not what this forum is intended for.

Conversations here can be triggering for those who have suffered abuse from HPDs. .
Non HPD users are welcome to post here, But their questions Must have a respectful tone.
If you are a NON and have issues with an past relationship with an HPD person, it is suggested that you Post in a Relationship forum. Here is a link to that forum: relationship/

For those who have no respect for either this illness or for those who are living with it, please do not enter this forum. Discrimination of Personality Disorders is not tolerated on this site.

Moderators are present here to ensure that members treat each other with dignity and respect. If topics become overly graphic or drift from having a healthy perspective, moderators will intervene.
Please feel free to contact a moderator if you have any questions or concerns.

Best Regards,
The Team

Survived the confrontation of an HPD

Postby psyklon » Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:24 am

Hi all, I'm the classic lurker that after a while decides to step in. Maybe my HPD story can differ a bit from the ones I've read.
First of all, I'm not the one with the HPD, rather, it's my counterpart who's the one with an out of the book HPD that fits almost perfectly to an HPD. By reading some of the stories here I see some patterns that are common accross all the HPDs including my counterpart (on her own words, a very close friend of mine...no sex or anything else...)
Our story goes back to almost 4 years ago when we almost dated BUT I wasn't aware of all of this at that time so you can imagine what happens when one tries to apply the rules of romantic engagement of any sort of normal people to HPDs. I was severely dissapointed, didn't contact her again and then she called me as she wanted me as a friend.
The cycle repeated itself one more time a few months ago and then in my crisis, I saw the light, while I suspected she had borderline characteristics I observed her interaction with others (we share a social circle with similar lifestyle) and..EUREKA...how come I didn't realize before she was a histrionic, a really easy to spot personal disorder.

Again, after the end of the last engagement-dissapointment cycle, I stopped contacting her and keep my distance and after some time she started contacting me back. The only difference is, this time I knew what I was up to. The challenge? To be the one controlling the relationship, confront her on her PD and see how she reacts.

One of the things I had to do in order to keep (at least some..) control of the relationship was to let her contact me and never let it be the other way around. I won't fool myself here, she does keep some control but it's also a way to make sure she still has motivation to keep in touch with me, etc.

Second thing, most complicated : confrontation. I didn't do it at once. I started suggesting her things like ''have you ever wondered how your behaviour affects others?'' (she was complaining on how guys keep approaching her ''out of nowhere'' to date her for no apparent reason). Of course, she reacted loudly and was almost shouting ''are you telling me that I'm an attention whore (or something along those lines) ?'', I calmly responded ''I wouldn't put it that way (I was thinking to myself ''yes, you are) I'm just saying that maybe, without knowing you may send the wrong signals to these guys'' (note : of course she is sends all that type of signals to guys but if I put it to straight forward I would only put her more on the defensive). Somehow, the conversation went back to other more normal topics. Some time after other ''innocent'' suggestions I finally told her on the HPD. She was defensive and I told her that being defensive is exactly what happens most of the times. After googling it, she recognized she ''may'' have some of the HPD treats. However, she's still defensive and was upset over me telling that to her (she kept talking to me though and never said or did anything against me). To some extent, I showed her that I know all her dirty secrets, I know how she behaves which possibly converts me in someone different from the rest.

My findings (some of the ones I can think of...) :

She doesn't seem to be completely aware of how she affects men or other people. I tried to be pushy and she insisted she doesn't know why random guys keep wanting to date her but I think she's not being manipulative or lying, histrionic and all.

Right now she's in her down time so I'm sure she will try finding some guy to increase her sense of self worth, still, I'm not decided that this can be due to external factors or it's part of the HPD. I cannot think of a better time to keep ''testing'' her than in her down time, only problem can be that this can exacerbate her depression and I'm not that much of a sadist.

Bear in mind that she played the game with a worse freak than herself don't worry, I'm fine with being a ''freak'' that wants to control human relationships, some of you may want to diagnose me. You can try but my main intention is to have more insights on this. I'm prepared for any scenario (she telling random $#%^ to friends, etc, etc) with her but I want to keep this little experiment of mine as long as possible.
psyklon
Consumer 0
Consumer 0
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 12:39 am
Local time: Sat Oct 25, 2014 4:45 am
Blog: View Blog (0)


ADVERTISEMENT

Re: Survived the confrontation of an HPD

Postby Jay Mack » Mon Mar 08, 2010 5:50 pm

Psyklon, I'm guessing that the length of your test will last only as long as she has you strongly "idealized". If you're "the guy" that she believes she wants long term then she may suffer through some of your diagnosis for some length of time. Otherwise she'll move on to some other unwitting soul who doesn't create such confusion over her behaviours.
Jay Mack
Jay Mack
Consumer 5
Consumer 5
 
Posts: 126
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:25 am
Local time: Sat Oct 25, 2014 8:45 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Survived the confrontation of an HPD

Postby psyklon » Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:03 pm

Hi Jay. Thanks for your reply.
The trick would be to balance the ''suffering'' of my diagnosis to things that reinforce their sense of self worth including ''you are my favourite histrionic girl'' just to make her know that I'm not that evil. I try to mix ''good'' (increasing her sense of self worth) vs. ''bad'' (diagnosing her) as much as I can, very tricky considering how volatile HPDs are.
Also, I'm not sure she has me idealized, what would suggest that? The fact that our friendship/almost something else lasted so long?
Something else to bear in mind, she's not flirting me and if she does, it would be very, very, very subtle (not different from any other girl, HPDs are human as well). She always let it clear that when we see each other it is as friends. Taking the relationship to another level wouldn't hurt but still, I'm not dependent on her on that level.
psyklon
Consumer 0
Consumer 0
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 12:39 am
Local time: Sat Oct 25, 2014 4:45 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Survived the confrontation of an HPD

Postby caro81VA » Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:03 pm

Psyklon,

I have a hard time answering your post, because I can't see what you are wanting in your relationship with this girl.

Maybe you should answer that for yourself, and then figure out whether it's even possible.

c
caro81VA
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 277
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:20 pm
Local time: Sat Oct 25, 2014 2:45 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Survived the confrontation of an HPD

Postby psyklon » Tue Mar 09, 2010 2:50 am

Not sure. She's dating material but until I don't find it secure to turn our close friendship into something else, I won't move towards that direction and keep being friends.
Dating her would mean needing to confront her on her behaviour which is some of the work I'm already doing. If nothing happens, it's still some type of experience I like
If things start heading south, I'll stop any communication with her with no hesitation.
I guess it takes a worse freak than an HPD to be able to cope with them, lots of patience, self control, detachment, being manipulative to some point.
Hope that answers your question and it brings more sense to my previous posts. Also, having read about other HPDs, I'm dealing with the best of many evils.

caro81VA wrote:Psyklon,

I have a hard time answering your post, because I can't see what you are wanting in your relationship with this girl.

Maybe you should answer that for yourself, and then figure out whether it's even possible.

c
psyklon
Consumer 0
Consumer 0
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 12:39 am
Local time: Sat Oct 25, 2014 4:45 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Survived the confrontation of an HPD

Postby TatteredKnight » Tue Mar 09, 2010 3:24 am

psyklon wrote:Not sure. She's dating material but ...

What? Unless by dating material you mean non-exclusive... I can sort of see it working as you two being mutual booty calls.

You're right to an extent, that if you are fully in control of yourself, willing to ruthlessly enforce boundaries, and willing to walk away the moment she crosses them, then you can keep a relationship going. It's like having a wildcat, though. She might purr and cuddle up to you or she might bite you or go begging strangers for food, and you never know which it'll be until it happens. If you find out that you've just adopted a wildcat, you learn to live with it and maybe even love the challenge... but given the choice, wouldn't you prefer to adopt a more civilised breed?

Edit:
Jay Mack wrote:Psyklon, I'm guessing that the length of your test will last only as long as she has you strongly "idealized". If you're "the guy" that she believes she wants long term then she may suffer through some of your diagnosis for some length of time. Otherwise she'll move on to some other unwitting soul who doesn't create such confusion over her behaviours.

This is true. It's important to remember, though, that normal women (and maybe men to some extent) do the idealisation/devaluation cycle too! I'm certain you've heard "I just don't see what I ever saw in him" about an ex? One of the keys to staying in the idealisation phase is to not let them push you around. If you do, it becomes a habit. You allow them to take control of you. They then hold you in contempt because if they can push you around, they see you as weak. This is when devaluation comes in. The way to avoid this and stay in the idealisation cycle is to never allow yourself to become weak and passive and manipulated. You earn their respect by standing up to them. Maybe there are women out there who don't work on this dynamic... but I know there are an awful lot of women, especially histrionics, who do.
TatteredKnight
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 376
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:48 pm
Local time: Sat Oct 25, 2014 7:45 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Survived the confrontation of an HPD

Postby newtohpd » Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:41 am

It's important to remember, though, that normal women (and maybe men to some extent) do the idealisation/devaluation cycle too! I'm certain you've heard "I just don't see what I ever saw in him" about an ex? One of the keys to staying in the idealisation phase is to not let them push you around. If you do, it becomes a habit. You allow them to take control of you. They then hold you in contempt because if they can push you around, they see you as weak. This is when devaluation comes in. The way to avoid this and stay in the idealisation cycle is to never allow yourself to become weak and passive and manipulated. You earn their respect by standing up to them. Maybe there are women out there who don't work on this dynamic... but I know there are an awful lot of women, especially histrionics, who do.


This is true. Men/women of all kinds "devalue" and my thinking is that with PDs, the problem becomes acute because of the following:

1. Timeline - The time to "devalue" seems awfully short with PDs. While a normal person would take months and probably years to devalue a partner, PDs seem to be able to do it within weeks. I guess it has to do with the black/white thinking and the extreme idealization they start of with.

2. Quality of love - Normals love their partners for their qualities and virtues. PDs seem to "love" their partners for what they can provide to them. There is a sense of entitlement with PDs which is so extreme and self-centered, that if you don't provide what they need, they can quickly cut you off. PDs hardly spend time knowing you well enough to value your qualities and virtues, which you unconsciously realize and therefore their love for you seems fake.

3. Unhappiness - PDs seem to me to be very unhappy people, whether they accept this or not. Mostly they don't know what they want and jump into a relationship without the proper reason - hence they don't invest proper emotions either. Infact their capability to invest themselves deeply is impaired because of their chronic mistrust. Being chronically unhappy, dissatisfied and without deep investment of themselves in a relationship, they can easily end up blaming you for any crisis that happens and so quickly devalue you.

4. The game - PDs seem to start playing the "love" game in a relationship. Even when they want "love" (especially HPDs and BPDs), they seem mistrusting of their partners. Hence they are constantly checking, testing and keeping score. When they feel that the score is not upto their expectations, they easily become disillusioned with their partner and then start devaluation.

5. Conflict - PDs can't seem to fathom a non-manipulative relationship. Their habit from childhood drives them to constantly manipulate their partners, who then react to this manipulation with anger, resulting in conflict. Since resolving conflict is not a motive for PDs, the conflict is never resolved and it becomes a play of one-up-manship. The end result is a huge backlog of conflict and resentment, that again leads to devaluation.

6. Thinking - I know this may sound controversial, but it seems to me that PDs have their brain wired for some kind of uni-directional, non-integrated thinking. Even if they are intelligent, their thinking seems to move along a single direction (mostly negative) and is unable to integrate the various other related aspects into a whole. Lacking in empathy, there is no scope for external feedback either. The result is a very sharp and acute reasoning, which is mostly out of context. With HPDs (and BPDs) this reasoning is mostly a set of extreme impressions (created from their feeling, rather than the facts around). To a normal this reasoning mostly appears to be "for the sake of argument" rather than to resolve any issue or conflict - "the my way or highway" kind of thinking.

There are many other issues that I can state, but I guess my point is that, you may point out behaviors to a PD, but it will not necessarily improve their behavior, simply because their "wiring" and "life schema" is faulty. The only way they can improve their behavior is if they can use professional help to substantially repair their "wiring" and rewrite their "schema". Again, if its a genetic thing (as with psychopaths) it is not easy to repair this at all.

We normals seem to again and again fall into the trap of believing that if we point out behaviors to an HPD, they will be able to magically improve their behavior, just by recognizing it.

With HPDs, the best bet is for a partner to define a set of boundaries and keep her on the straight path, while letting the relationship dynamics remain non-threatening and emotionally supportive. It is by no means an easy task. With high-functioning HPDs, this might work well. With low-functioning HPDs (who seem very borderline), this might not work at all without professional help.

Another way is to use their own schema with them, which means, to manipulate them into giving you what you need. This again is not easy for a normal to do, since we can't keep on doing it long-term - our brains are not wired that way.

The best way however, is for an HPD to realize through life experiences that she has "faulty" dynamics, enter therapy on her own and then slowly repair her wiring. This, as we all know, is not common for HPDs since they don't face the kind of problems that other Cluster Bs face. Infact they don't see any problem at all, since they are able to get what they want. Only if an HPD is forced by circumstances to want something different in life than what they are used to getting will they really want to change and seek out help. And then again, it will require tremendous courage to change.

So guys, stop trying to change HPDs or any PDs. Save yourself. You can't save another person, or remove her unhappiness or change her way of thinking.

Yes, if you want to play the game, and you feel you can sustain that game, go ahead and play the game. Just be clear what you are getting out of it.
newtohpd
Consumer 5
Consumer 5
 
Posts: 170
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:39 am
Local time: Sat Oct 25, 2014 1:15 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Survived the confrontation of an HPD

Postby upalse » Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:27 pm

psyklon wrote:Hi all, I'm the classic lurker that after a while decides to step in.
..
le) and..EUREKA...how come I didn't realize before she was a histrionic, a really easy to spot personal disorder.


Same story here. Fallen for her madly, found out something is wrong, ceased all contact until being emotionally indifferent with her (you need to know to fake proper responses, while keeping completely detached). My reason for staying in contact with her is the sheer thrill alone, as i'm generally enjoying the 'mentor' role, so here goes my opinions about it (maybe there should be some thread for people trying to coexist w/ an HPD?).

psyklon wrote:To be the one controlling the relationship, confront her on her PD and see how she reacts.


Not the wisest idea, imho. Confronting a HPD is possible once they're capable of introspection, not a common thing with 5yrs-like emotional equipped individual. What worked for me, surprisingly, is the reverse-psychology, ie follow her reasoning, but bend it a little, more and more as the time goes. Possible explanation would be basically that everybody is saying 'something is very wrong with you' and gets devalued instantly, where you, on the other hand are her 'soulmate'. This turned into pupil-mentor relationship where she's identified with and mimics ALL of my behaviour.

psyklon wrote:One of the things I had to do in order to keep (at least some..) control of the relationship was to let her contact me and never let it be the other way around. I won't fool myself here, she does keep some control but it's also a way to make sure she still has motivation to keep in touch with me, etc.


At this stage, it is extremely important to ignore everything sexual coming from a HPD, it's handy to have some other male around (not someone you're close friend with, though) to redirect this aspect to. This is important to slowly get rid of that tit-for-tat mentality she's carrying (as you're showing love while not asking anything in return) and also protecting yourself from the jealousy game. You may exhibit some touchiness towards for a lil ego boost, but certainly not crossing the friendship line, you must stay emotionally indifferent at all times, otherwise you'll be her toy.

psyklon wrote:Second thing, most complicated : confrontation. I didn't do it at once. I started suggesting her things like ''have you ever
... I know how she behaves which possibly converts me in someone different from the rest.


Did that, was a mistake and huge relapse followed as she tried to play the game against me coercively, surprisingly she came back after a while resuming the mentor-pupil stage.

psyklon wrote:She doesn't seem to be completely aware of how she affects men or other people. I tried to be pushy and she insisted she doesn't know why random guys keep wanting to date her but I think she's not being manipulative or lying, histrionic and all.


It's important to realize that HPDs are completely out of sync in their emotional and rational states (from normal's perspective), however both are quite easy to manipulate once you know the personality long enough. Getting em out of their self-deception and denial process is somewhat frustrating at times, as you're indeed basically dealing with 5-yrs old.

psyklon wrote:Right now she's in her down time so I'm sure she will try finding some guy to increase her sense of self worth, still, I'm not decided that this can be due to external factors or it's part of the HPD. I cannot think of a better time to keep ''testing'' her than in her down time, only problem can be that this can exacerbate her depression and I'm not that much of a sadist.


Imho its necessary to show empathy at all times she's not trying to emotionally manipulate you but it is genuinely deserved. Also, it's important to not let YOUR circle of friends near her, let alone girlfriend if you have any (she stabbed one relationship of mine during the aforementioned relapse).

psyklon wrote:Bear in mind that she played the game with a worse freak than herself don't worry, I'm fine with being a ''freak'' that wants to control human relationships, some of you may want to diagnose me. You can try but my main intention is to have more insights on this. I'm prepared for any scenario (she telling random $#%^ to friends, etc, etc) with her but I want to keep this little experiment of mine as long as possible.


I think we're both psychopats/narcs with moral personality aspects on top of that, still tightly pulling the strings, not much to our advantage. Bear in mind that whatever progress she's showing towards YOU is not important, as that's just part of her deceptive personality, the reality check comes in changes of her behaviour towards everyone else, esp. the 'new guys'.

Finally, do not ever try to be honest with her, you're just her good friend.
upalse
Consumer 0
Consumer 0
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:12 pm
Local time: Sat Oct 25, 2014 7:45 am
Blog: View Blog (0)


Return to Histrionic Personality Disorder Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 34 guests

cron