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Difference Between HPD and BPD - Newbie

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Difference Between HPD and BPD - Newbie

Postby NYC1117 » Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:07 am

Greetings,
I am new to this forum and have been reading it non stop for about 10 hours. I've always suspected that there was something wrong emotionally with my GF, but, I didn't know there was a categorized designated clinical illness for what I was experiencing. I've been reading and I'm mesmerized by what I've read. I'm four + years into my current relationship with my HPD and I'm not even close to recovery. I don't even know if I want to recover from this. I'm sure there are more devastating stories, but, I've pretty much lost it all. She is beautiful, a young 45 year old woman, and I am completely in love with her. At least I really think I am. I left a wife of 25 years for her, sold my house, and eventually lost my position in my company where I was earning $160k per year, mostly because I couldn't concentrate on anything but the drama. It got to the point where I could no longer talk to my partner or a family member on the phone when she was there. We lived together for 3 years and just recently split up in September 2009 because I became sick and had to have a series of stent heart procedures. I also lost my position at work. All the predictable things happened at the breakup including her devaluating me, and badmouthing me all over town to common friends. At first it was No Contact and it was working for me. She freaked me out and made me hate her so much that I really had no recourse, but, to go NC. However, at Thanksgiving (Nov 2009) she contacted me and told me that she wasn't ready to say goodbye and enough time had passed so that I would see her again. We got together and made love all night and I was hooked again. I thought I'd go back just for the sex and then I fell in love with her over time. Currently we both live in separate apartments so there isn't the living together baggage that we were carrying before, but, the rest is still there. Including the fact that she is doing me for weeks and then she goes home to her ex husband and does him for the weekend. I just recently found out about that. I'm still unemployed and trying to start from scratch. She is a dog trainer and a good one at that. We both live in NYC on the Upper Eastside. There are so many more dynamics in our relationship it's just impossible to detail them all in this post. I am so glad to have found this place. I am coming to my wits end with all the drama, but, I still love her so and she sometimes when it is good, it's magical. Reading here, it looks so hopeless, but, I'd do anything to save her, but, I have no idea how and if it's possible without saving myself first. As mentioned above, I'm not even thinking recovery, but, at least I'm reaching out for help and just reading is easing the torture. The sex is absolutely amazing and it just keeps getting better, and it's not just the physical part of the relationship, but, also, I can sense that she is trying with the emotional end and catching herself here and there, but, her attempt at healing is not even at the tip of the iceberg. She has a heart of gold and will do anything for me on one day or in one hour and then without notice, I'm the bad guy, the devil, and she pushes me away, only to cry for help 6 hours later so that I have to come rushing to her because she's in some kind of emotional crises. Just last week, she sent me a text with "HELP" and then I couldn't track her down. Her phone was off, and I ended up climbing her fire escape . . . the story goes on. So bizarre, but, it is starting to take it's toll on me to the point that I am here. Many thanks in advance for anyone who posts to my benefit. Perhaps my experience here will help others down the road.

Since I'm just starting to research all of this, I see that there is both a Borderline and a Histrionic Personality Disorder. It's a little gray to me as to the major difference between the two. I read about both and she seems to fit both illnesses, but, what is the difference. Can she be both or is one a subset of the other?

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Re: Difference Between HPD and BPD - Newbie

Postby caro81VA » Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:44 pm

walrus44 wrote:She is beautiful, a young 45 year old woman, and I am completely in love with her. At least I really think I am. I left a wife of 25 years for her, sold my house, and eventually lost my position in my company where I was earning $160k per year, mostly because I couldn't concentrate on anything but the drama. It got to the point where I could no longer talk to my partner or a family member on the phone when she was there.


Instead of focusing on a clinical diagnosis of HPD vs BPD for your ex, suggest you focus on the above description as well as the quote below describing your breakup. It fits very closely with the collective experience of many HPD victims on here.

My opinion - it really doesn't matter what label you put on her disorder. The important thing is that you recognize that your relationship with her is not healthy and that you get help in getting out and recovering from it. Part of that is finding support among people with similar experience - which is where this board comes in.

walrus44 wrote:All the predictable things happened at the breakup including her devaluating me, and badmouthing me all over town to common friends. At first it was No Contact and it was working for me. She freaked me out and made me hate her so much that I really had no recourse, but, to go NC. However, at Thanksgiving (Nov 2009) she contacted me and told me that she wasn't ready to say goodbye and enough time had passed so that I would see her again. We got together and made love all night and I was hooked again. .... there isn't the living together baggage that we were carrying before, but, the rest is still there. Including the fact that she is doing me for weeks and then she goes home to her ex husband and does him for the weekend.


Check out http://counsellingresource.com/quizzes/loser/index.html for a good description of the breakup cycle. Give yourself credit for doing No Contact for a while - and recognizing it did help.

walrus44 wrote:Reading here, it looks so hopeless, but, I'd do anything to save her, but, I have no idea how and if it's possible without saving myself first. As mentioned above, I'm not even thinking recovery, but, at least I'm reaching out for help and just reading is easing the torture.


Very Important: You CAN NOT save or fix another person. You can save yourself.

Keep posting, and best wishes
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Re: Difference Between HPD and BPD - Newbie

Postby AGCDEFG » Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:01 pm

Dude, no offense, but you are part of the problem here. You left a wife of twenty-five years for a younger honey that you thought would give you neverending good sex?

Maybe you can tell your ex how sorry you are that you did such a dysfunctional thing and maybe she'll take you back.

IMO what you feel for this woman his lust, not love. Regardless of what she is, both of you have done some bad stuff and don't seem to really be in love. Lust isn't love.

I wish I had better advice for you, but I can only tell you that perhaps therapy will help you get your head on straight. As soon as I read you'd left your long-term wife for her...you lost my sympathy.

I do wish you luck and hope you get the help you need to sort out your life. Good luck.

As for the purpose of the board, it is actually support board for histronics.
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Re: Difference Between HPD and BPD - Newbie

Postby insincerity » Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:07 pm

You show such great judgment that I'd just advise you to keep following your instincts.
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Re: Difference Between HPD and BPD - Newbie

Postby TatteredKnight » Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:43 am

BPD and HPD are indeed very similar. The 'core hurt of abandonment', resulting from their childhood feeling that one or both parents don't love them, is at the heart of both disorders. The biggest distinction as I understand it is that people with BPD are driven by their need to avoid feeling abandoned, whereas people with HPD are driven by their need for attention. BPDs are more likely to try and cut their partner off from the world to control them, HPDs are more likely to have a collection of guys floating around after them around like desperate, sex-addled balloons.

Reading here, it looks so hopeless, but, I'd do anything to save her, but, I have no idea how and if it's possible without saving myself first.

Let's get this clear: It's not possible for you to save her, whether or not you save yourself. The best you can hope for is to save yourself, and then give her the opportunity to choose to save herself. She must decide to face her demons and seek help. Nothing you can do will 'change her' or 'help her' or 'fix her'.

The only person you can change, help or fix is yourself. And it looks like you have a great deal of work to do - you gave up your wife of 25 years, your house, your job, and your family for this woman? She's still screwing her ex-husband as well as you? You went non-contact and SHE told YOU that she wasn't ready to let you go and that you WOULD see her again? And she's still pulling off all this #######4 attention-seeking behaviour and you're still letting her yank you around like a fluffy toy on the end of a string? Your brain is AWOL, your dick has taken control of your life and your balls are nowhere to be seen.

Stop having sex with her.
Stop going back to her.
Stop rescuing her.
Stop romanticising her.
Start trying to figure out why you were doing all these things in the first place.
Start seeking professional help because you'll probably need it to do the last step.
Start getting your own life in order.

Just my 2c, I've been harsh here, but you need to focus on you.
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Re: Difference Between HPD and BPD - Newbie

Postby NYC1117 » Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:59 am

Dude, no offense, but you are part of the problem here. You left a wife of twenty-five years for a younger honey that you thought would give you neverending good sex?


AGCDEFG, I understand how you can think this, but, the truth is that our marriage was over 12 years earlier after she had cheated on me with another woman (the last straw) and I just stayed in the pocket another 12 years to help raise my step-son who was only 12 at the time and was bonded very close to me. After he graduated college and my best friend (my dog) died, I knew it was time to leave and that is when Tammy came into my life. I was on my way out the door anyway. Tammy was the catalyst. I had no kids with my wife.

Maybe you can tell your ex how sorry you are that you did such a dysfunctional thing and maybe she'll take you back.


I have no desire to do so. Since I met Tammy, I'm completely opened up and feel like I've lived a lifetime in the four short years we've been together.

MO what you feel for this woman his lust, not love. Regardless of what she is, both of you have done some bad stuff and don't seem to really be in love. Lust isn't love.


Again, I can understand your thinking here, but, it is so far from the the truth. We danced to "Stand by Me" in front of Nostradam in Paris on the Rhine at 2am to the full moon. We have magical times when we are together bouncing and playing all around the city. Going to museums. And at times, when I look into her eyes, all I see is pure love. Yes, the carnal lust is there for sure and that must be the absolute glue that has so obsessed, but, the love is there too. Half the time it is pure bliss and the other half is pure hell and from day to day, I don't know what to expect. Right now things are perfect, but, tomorrow, who knows. She could take 3 klonopins, drink some wine, and who knows where the wind blows. But it doesn't matter if she is abusing or not, it's hot, it's cold. She loves me and needs me then she hates me and pushes me away. And it's just not about me. She has tremendous fits of anger about the most insignificant events and I just have to let her play it out. And then there is the drama and the constant lying even when there isn't a reason to lie.

You show such great judgment that I'd just advise you to keep following your instincts.


Insincerity, I appreciate your sincerity. Hey, man, at least I made it to here. I'm so far gone at this stage, I'd die for her in a second if need be. Yeah, I think I can use a bit of help right now. Judgement is based on logic and this love affair or my addiction to my HPD is anything but logical. To be honest with you, bro, I take it day by day and try to stay in the moment. My mind wants to dig myself out, but, my heart is trapped and I can't walk away. She has an endless supply in me and she knows it. I think she's addicted to. The whole thing is lethal to both of us.

Instead of focusing on a clinical diagnosis of HPD vs BPD for your ex, suggest you focus on the above description as well as the quote below describing your breakup. It fits very closely with the collective experience of many HPD victims on here.


Caro, thanks for the advice. It makes complete sense to do that.

My opinion - it really doesn't matter what label you put on her disorder. The important thing is that you recognize that your relationship with her is not healthy and that you get help in getting out and recovering from it. Part of that is finding support among people with similar experience - which is where this board comes in.


Well, I'm here my friend, and I'm certainly glad you and the others are here for support. This board actually got me through a very hard time this past couple of days. Finding you people has been a blessing. I guess we'll see what happens. Right now, I am just numb to it all. It's great to talk to others that can relate. I thought I was alone on this one.

Check out http://counsellingresource.com/quizzes/loser/index.html for a good description of the breakup cycle. Give yourself credit for doing No Contact for a while - and recognizing it did help.


She made it impossible for me to contact her. Restraining orders and all that. I had no idea what I did. She said I had anger issues and that she was afraid of me. I was angry at her for walking out when I needed her most, but, I wasn't violent or anything like that. Plus, I had to go for another heart stent surgery and she just couldn't handle that and me losing my job at the same time. She freaked and the situation triggered and magnified the HPD symptoms. I didn't even recognize her. When I was gone for a couple of days, she actually broke into my apartment and vandalized it. She had to hate me to leave me. Whatever, I didn't even know about HPD. I wish I did. Several weeks went by with no contact - maybe an email here and there - because we had joint accounts that needed to be closed and stuff like that, but, the emails were all short and terse. I'll check out the link you posted. Thanks.

Very Important: You CAN NOT save or fix another person. You can save yourself.


You'd think, after all these years (I'm 54), I'd know that. I just don't think I can walk on this one. Not yet, but, tomorrow never knows. I do have an open mind. The problem is my heart.

Thanks everyone for your feedback and advice. I look forward to spending more time here.

Paul
Last edited by NYC1117 on Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Difference Between HPD and BPD - Newbie

Postby NYC1117 » Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:38 am

BPD and HPD are indeed very similar. The 'core hurt of abandonment', resulting from their childhood feeling that one or both parents don't love them, is at the heart of both disorders. The biggest distinction as I understand it is that people with BPD are driven by their need to avoid feeling abandoned, whereas people with HPD are driven by their need for attention. BPDs are more likely to try and cut their partner off from the world to control them, HPDs are more likely to have a collection of guys floating around after them around like desperate, sex-addled balloons.


Thanks for posting, Sir Knight. I think she has a bit of both. The attention is not as strong as the her need to cut off her partner from the world to control them. On the other hand, she doesn't like others to be the center of attention either. As for the collection of guys, when I met her, there were a collection of guys floating around her, but, they disappeared after we became more involved. However, the husband never disappeared and I did think it was very weird to have such a close relationship with the ex. I suspected they were having sex early on, but, then I think it stopped, and who knows what's going on. You can't really believe anything she says. Lately, she's been complaining that every guy she meets is hitting on her. I really don't know how she acts when I'm not there. She may be a totally different person. Then she's saying that she feels that she's being stalked and her fear of being alone issue is coming back. Long ago she told me that she was gang raped and I don't know if it's true or not - to be honest. I do know that she always told me how her parents would forget her in the stores and that her father used to physically abuse her mother in front of the kids all the time. She may have been abused herself by someone in the family, but, she never said so. I suspected it though. She is hypersexual and I'm not sure if that is HPD or BPD, but, like caro said above, that's probably not what's important right now.

Let's get this clear: It's not possible for you to save her, whether or not you save yourself. The best you can hope for is to save yourself, and then give her the opportunity to choose to save herself. She must decide to face her demons and seek help. Nothing you can do will 'change her' or 'help her' or 'fix her'.


I think she really wants to get better. She has a therapist, but, I'm not sure exactly what she is treating her for. I know she was just given exercises to help her with her fear of being alone. Her shrink just feeds her the klonopin. Little does he know that she is an abuser, but, I don't think he cares much about that part. He probably feels she is better now than she was before the "K" even with the abuse. It's very scary because she abuses alcohol too and together they are lethal. I think that is why I run so fast when she calls. You are right, of course, and I think a big part of her helping herself right now is probably because I'm an emotional wreck and my life is upside down. If I can work on my part, perhaps, she might seek to get better. She's always talking about getting really healthy and that is both physically and mentally, but, when she does that, she set's such high standards, she sets herself up to fail and of course I can't suggest anything or else I'm telling her what to do and that is a cardinal sin. The problem for me is the drama. It's always there. Yes, we get a break for a day or two, but, it's always something. I need to get beyond that for me to take care of business. It just seems hopeless.

The only person you can change, help or fix is yourself. And it looks like you have a great deal of work to do - you gave up your wife of 25 years, your house, your job, and your family for this woman? She's still screwing her ex-husband as well as you? You went non-contact and SHE told YOU that she wasn't ready to let you go and that you WOULD see her again? And she's still pulling off all this #######4 attention-seeking behaviour and you're still letting her yank you around like a fluffy toy on the end of a string? Your brain is AWOL, your dick has taken control of your life and your balls are nowhere to be seen.


The marriage was hard, but, it was over a long time ago, I explained that to AGCDEF in my other post. The step kids were grown and gone. The job was big because I was making big time bucks, but, I hated the people I was working with. It felt like a prison, so, in a way, she freed me from all of that and I have a fresh canvas to build my life on. But, you are right, the sex is fantastic right now and maybe it's because things are very intense. She digs me physically at this point and from what I'm reading, she may not be capable of love, so then what am I reading. I'm confused because to me it feels like the real deal.

Stop having sex with her.
Stop going back to her.
Stop rescuing her.
Stop romanticising her.
Start trying to figure out why you were doing all these things in the first place.
Start seeking professional help because you'll probably need it to do the last step.
Start getting your own life in order.

Just my 2c, I've been harsh here, but you need to focus on you.


You are probably right and like I said, deep down inside, I know it's lethal, but, it is so exciting. If I knew there was no love there, and it was all lust and that's it, I could probably do it, but, I'm so hooked on this girl, I just don't know what to do. I'm definitely co-dependent, I am not in denial to that. I was never like this with any other relationship, but, it's because I have this need to save people and that is a serious problem in a situation like this. I do know that I must focus on me or I will not survive this. Thanks, man. I appreciate your candid and honest response.

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Re: Difference Between HPD and BPD - Newbie

Postby A little Wisernow » Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:01 am

Hey Walrus,

I was with my HPD through childhood, and then 1 year of dramatic love etc..........

Have you ever seen the movie "Butterflies Are Free" ?.........

Prepare yourself........... someday she may "forget you"............

It's true, Butterflies are free...............


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Re: Difference Between HPD and BPD - Newbie

Postby insincerity » Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:14 pm

Get a healthier addiction than your HPD. Something like crack should do the trick.
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Re: Difference Between HPD and BPD - Newbie

Postby caro81VA » Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:18 pm

hey walrus,

Here's another link for you on getting out of a relationship with a PD - it's for relationships w/ borderlines but the advice is good for HPD as well. Also, the sidebar on 'no contact' is really excellent.

http://www.bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a110.htm

This doesn't happen overnight. I have definitely been through the pain of knowing I would have to leave, but being completely paralyzed and unable to do so. Give yourself a little time, and meanwhile, you can start putting things in place to protect yourself. Financially (separate accounts), physically (STDs), legally (I'm really concerned about her tendency to throw restraining orders at you).

Also, I'm hoping you don't dwell too negatively on some of the posts you've gotten about your marriage. Infidelity, while nothing to be proud of, is usually a red flag that something else is wrong in the relationship. If you can recognize that red flag and work on your own issues, that's a big step forward. In fact, it's all you can do.

best wishes
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