Question-does HPD really start with their childhood?

Hey Santa Fe and others.

First of all I domt discount freud completely. I only believe though about certain aspects he was disturbed therefore projected that onto others. So others began to believe it so then others began to agree therefore not really doing there own fresh unbiased research but with his views in the back of their minds. Almost always in the background of any psychologist in history, they had something disturbing that happened to them in their background. It is the REASON they go into psychology in the first place even when their own hauntings have not been resolved but they feel the urge to help people and figure them out to help them therefore helping themselves.

Just like evolution it is a THEORY that can never be proven. It isn't solid as in math with 2 plu 2 equaling 4. Even if people from the beginning of time to the end of time have that theory it cannot be proven scientifically. It still remain just a theory.

BUT I do agree with rescued that freud has some valid points and I agree that a person could be predisposed somehow to HPD perhaps at the dysunction while being carried byu the mother. Then the environmental factors ultimately decide if that person will have HPD. And the situation talked anout that the woman still ended up with HPD even though the father was no where around helps our theory that it is caused by lack od bonding or emotional abandonment of the mother. And tattereds wife's father died when she was young I think he said so this also backs up the theory.

Prmiscuity is a separate isse that arrises when the father is absent from the picture. So we could analize that another time.

Either way so far no HPDs that have spoke up on this board since I joined have said no, I had a wonderful doting mother who never abandoned me. So we are more than likely all right in our own views that the mother is the key in the HPD factor.

I think everyone has to look at the bigger picture of rejecting mother, infanticide, economics and evolution. (Self-disclosure: I got rejecting parents.)

From what I've gathered, and tried to figure out over the last five years of consciously deciding to think myself out the emotional mess I'd found myself in, is it starts from the rejecting mother and this is not something new. Rejecting mother in the worst case scenario, infanticide, has been going on hundreds of years in the animal world (including humans). The cause is economic, where the mother finds it feasibly more economic to reject or kill the child than to rear it. This is an evolutionarily evolved behavior, where food resources were scarce and it was a matter of either the mother or child living. Evolution would favor the infanticidal mother, because she would be able to have another child when food became more available. Here's a wikipedia article on infanticide: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infanticide

What's really interesting is female babies are more likely to be rejected or killed, because it is economically more advantageous to rear a male, in a society that values males. Here's a wikipedia article on sex-selective infanticide: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex-select ... nfanticide

Basically the mother is in competition for suvival with the child. She will not spend her resources--time, bonding, love--if she does not think she will get a return on investment, if you will. She will definitely not invest in the child if it means sacrificing herself.

Now, modern society has changed to where it is illegal to kill the child, but in the past it was okay to leave your child in a field somewhere. Today, mothers just abandon through divorce, ignore or otherwise verbally and emotionally reject the child because it's economically more feasible than going to jail, yet not feasible enough to invest more.

I have a book to read called Treatise on the Family by economist by Gary Becker, who got the idea that families make an unconscious decision to invest in children if they think they will get care from them in the future. In other words, if a parent doesn't think there is a chance of getting care in old age, they will not invest much in the child. I hope you read it; it sounds interesting. He was awarded the Nobel Prize. Hope that helps.

Sounds interesting about that theory Survivor...

Of course in some societies this still happens in other countries and of course males are viewed as the more important because males continue the bloodline of the family and the family name especially in families of royalty. The females aren't normally reared to be able to grow up and be self supportive so they have to be married off for a man to take care of them. And that explains the time and effort put into a girl more than a boy that it probably speaks of. That does make sense.

I wonder though if that relates to HPD as much as when the mother turns on the child due to lack of love of the husband or jealousy of the child or what. I really don't know. And I certainly hope that no one ever does an experiment to find out.

Somewhere either in Germany or somewhere like that a study was done to see if lack of human touch would kill the child or any human if ALL other needs were met such as basic food, drink, cleanliness, changing for the baby , clothes, etc.

They weren't allowed any skin to skin contact from their caretakers, no talking, no cuddling, not external validation whatsoever. Just met the basic needs.

All the babies died. Now that is powerful. That says that WE NEED that love and nurturing, and normally we get it from our mothers. But when we don't it is like a supernova of dysfunction that goes on in our minds. We can either choose to let it control us or we can take control and be better mothers ourselves.

After the initial shock of being pregnant when I was just out of high school, I was good and felt good and when she started to kick I remember thinking how amazing it is to be a woman. I loved my babies to kick me even if it hurt because it made me know that I was responsible not just for myself but I could give them every thing they needed. My husband is a super daddy, but he still couldn't give them what I did, and I just feel very blessed to be a mother. Even though now I have teens and makes me want to pull my hair out sometimes, but I would never regret doing for them to help them become the young ladies they are now. I just love my kids and get much joy out of being their mother.

My husband and me have made sure they were not raised in an environment of chaos or dysfunction. I am grateful to him for helping me do that, but I always knew I would never let my kids go through that long before I ever had them. I didn't want that kind of life that we had growing up. And guess what? I don't. It is a choice no matter what anyone says.

Thanks, S

Thanks, Scarlett, for helping me realize I got abandoned. I love the supernova of dysfunction imagery.

I agree that we have more options than we first realize. I also believe we have biological and environmental limits, and knowing these limits gives us more freedom to choose. For example, we know we cannot jump tall buildings because of muscles and gravity. We are free not to wear ourselves out, fail over and over again, become hopeless, and get depressed. We can walk around it.

I think once we accept we cannot change people or what happened to them, we are free not to waste our energy doing the virtually impossible: getting them to love us and accept our love. We just go on happily around them. I firmly believe what surprises people, like me, is how much it affects us. Now I know there are limits to what I can tolerate. For instance, I cannot tolerate any kind of sexual harassment at work--the stress is not worth it to me. This is what years of abuse has done and I accept my limitations.

Speaking of sexual harassment, I wanted to let everyone not be afraid that accusing one person of sexual harassment means *they're* going to get accused. I came to the realization last night that sexual harassment really is an intimidation tactic; the goal is to gain status and the protection that comes with it. When someone sexually harasses you in front of other people (which in my experience is usually what happens) what they are really doing is intimidating everyone by saying, "Look who I can bully. If you don't treat me right, I can bully you too." I really hope people understand this and realize that when someone sexually harasses other people in the office, they are really trying to intimidate *you*.

Thanks again. Congrats on the family!

Here's a theory of how histrionic personality comes about, from the experts. This is from Hysterical Personality Style and the Histrionic Personality Disorder, edited by Mardi J. Horowitz, M.D.

For the female child, the mothering person, having been unable to deliver sufficient nurturance during infancy, continues to be found wanting as the child grows older, and the little girl turns to the parent of the opposite sex. Hollender (1971) notes: "The crucial point developmentally is that young girls who become hysterical personalities turn to their fathers or mother's father as substitute mothers" (p. 22). A young girl then looks to father to supply the missing nurturance and can only extract it on the basis of her coy, seductive, flirtatious behavior, which is, of course, rewarded with superficially focused interest--hardly an answer to her needs but better than nothing." p. 55 Postulated Dynamics

From personal experience, I felt like my mother died when she abandoned us. It actually felt worse, because she left us with him and I knew she had done this of her own decision and not because she was taken away in a terrible car accident or by something that a little child could understand.

My father was mentally ill. There was a history of mental illness and child sexual abuse in his family. I abhorred him from my earliest memories. My mother I believe got PTSD sometime before meeting him and was verbally and emotionally abusive to us. I believe if I had been raised solely by her I would have gotten only perhaps anxiety, possibly Avoidant Personality. But since I got raised by my dad I got Histrionic Personality. So did my sister. Hope this helps answer your question.

Another excellent book to read is The Psyhiatric Interview in Clinical Practice by Roger A. MacKinnon, M.D; Robert Michels, M.D.; Peter J. Buckley, M.D. It devotes separate chapters to Histrionic, Narcissistic, etc. personalities.

Well looking at it from the parental side I can give a few factors.

I have known my stepdaughter since she was 7 her father was an alcoholic that lost his license and used that as an excuse to never see her the few times he did all that happed was he badmouthed us.

My wife left him well before she met me but he would blame their breakup on me, it just showed how this man could shift the blame of his life falling apart on others she may have inherited some of his tenancies.

Years would go by without contact from him, he lived 25 miles away, about two years ago my stepdaughter at age 20 started a new relationship with him she moved in with him and his current girlfriend, it lasted 6 months before he threw her out I am sure there was a lot of blame to spread around.

My wife spent a lot of time with her daughter and has always been very loving to her when I entered the relationship I made sure her daughter was included in the activities we were doing and had input also, she was never abused but seemed to be very needy for attention and activities at all times.

As she got older she would be very possessive and controlling of whatever friend she had at the time if that friend was hanging out with someone else she would get very angry. She would then find a new friend and it would start again, most of these things at the child stage just look like a maturity issue but at age 21 now she has the same personality but even more intense.

So what triggered the disorder? I don't know maybe a combination of her fathers abandonment maybe genetics my wifes sister fits this profile very well

Well I hope I made a little sense here my thoughts are a bit jumbled coming to the realization that our daughter has a serious problem for every hpd there are parents out there dealing with it deservedly or not.

My HPD husband (we are separated) was the 7th child out of a total of 10 children. His father was the autocrat and his word in the house was final. No one ever dared to cross him. He was not a physically demonstrative loving man, and did not think it his place to help out with domestic chores. In addition to working full time and often being away from home, he also belonged to a jazz band (he played piano) and later on in his life to a bowling club. So he was out a lot. His parenting style was very 'hands off', and he invested very little of his free time in his children. My husband once said that never once did his father come to see his school play, attend parent-teacher evenings, or watch him play football. My father-in-law proudly used to boast that out of 10 babies, he had only ever changed one diaper. My husband's mother (my mother-in-law) did all the shopping, cleaning, laundry and cooking, and consequently had very little time for any of her children. The elder daughters were co-opted into helping out with household chores, and with looking after the younger children. My husband's elder sisters used to take him to football club, boy scouts, catechism classes, etc. I truly believe the reason my husband has HPD is due to a lack of attention in his formative years, and a severe lack of nurturing. He craves attention and cannot take any form of personal criticism. He has a hot temper, is impetuous and hedonistic to the extreme. He is not a scheduler or a planner, and his actions never have any attention to detail. Its like he cannot see the big picture as he is so focussed on himself and how he is going to look and how he is reflected in other people's eyes. Oh - and that's not mentioning the several adulterous affairs which he carried out during our marriage and also (so I subsequently found out from his ex-wife) throughout his first marriage.

HPD very definitely in my opinion starts with a lack of parental bonding and attention... There may be other 'genetic' factors at play, but the formative years are where the damage begins.