So it's called "projection"

Just reading the posts, as usual, and saw someone mention the word "projection". I didn't have a name for the action, but I'm thankful to have it now! I have seen this with the HPD. She will call out things that I am sure I do not feel, but that she must feel about me. Such as she will say I am dramatic & I am obsessed with her & I am a looney. I don't go after her, I don't try to put her down or even have anything to do with her, but we run in similar circles so she always finds a way to put me down. SHE is the one who is completely melo dramatic & always commenting on things that I do & saying how she could do it better. Constantly one upping. I could care less! I see how pathetic it is for her to do that. But she see's me as the one who is doing it. I just assumed she was being a you-know-what, not actually believing that I am like that! But I think, after all, that she does convince herself that I am the things she says I am since she cannot bare to look within herself to see that it is actually her who feels those things. Just venting & feeling much better now. Projection. Nice to have a word for it!

I think projection works on the unconscious level. That is, at some level they dislike something about themselves, but cannot bring themselves to admit that they are this way, so they end up projecting it on someone else. It goes again to a lack of insight.

My ex gf could never really admit to doing anything wrong, so to admit these things would be devastating to her. But they are present and so she gets "rid" of them by projecting them on another person. Thus, I watched my ex gf complain about the dramatics of other women in a dramatic fashion. I almost laughed out loud at the absurdity, but didn't.

Now, why she is projecting it on you, I don't know.

Part of therapy is making conscious, the unconscious. But with people in cluster b, apparently they construct a rickity structure of a false self of specialness and to keep propping it up they have to deny any of these bad things exist in them. Confession is indeed good for the soul. But they have things so hammered down, so unaware are they, that they have nothing to confess. I suppose if they started confessing these things, the whole structure would fall down and then where would they be.

My advice. If this person is not a friend, I would keep it that way. Then again, I suppose you could tell her that she is projecting stuff on you and that maybe she is unaware of it. Then you could see what happens. At that point, she would add "mean" to her list.

My ex gf could not distinguish between someone being "mean" to her and someone being "honest." I tried to distinguish it for her, but she said I was into too many details. Of course, if the details contained a smattering of "truth" about her behavior, she wasn't interested in that either.

If it all wasn't so serious and tragic, it would be absurdly funny.

Definitely seen them use projection.

I know it's not limited to HPDs, but they do seem to be fond of it, and not very subtle about it either.

Example: He cheats on me, then accuses me of cheating on him.
Example: He tries to act innocent and blame our divorce on me. Then he accuses me of acting innocent and blameshifting on him.

Oh well.

I found that an HPD projecting will give you good insight into what there thinking. Cheating and jealousy seem to consume there minds and they are easily triggered in both areas.

My ex HPD would be triggered all the time. I would catch her acting out then she would lash out and ask why I don't trust her

Their manipulations are endless...anything and I mean anything to avoid being real

harrison56 wrote:My ex gf could not distinguish between someone being "mean" to her and someone being "honest."

Yes, a thousand times yes! She can't comprehend that it's possible for someone to have a negative opinion about her or her behaviour simply because of their observations rather than an emotional reaction. So if someone criticises her, it's not because she's incorrect or doing something destructive. It's because they hate her or they think she's a bad person or they want to hurt her.

Thanks to Tattered Knight, I've also got thie new word, and like my previous new word, these simple labels could be the keys to the conscious/unconscious barrier.

There's a lot more, but these words are great, they are painless little mirrors with which to see myself and control myself, a bit at a time.

I'm still goofing up and being cruel, i had an ex on the phone today, but I was listening to her and noting my reactions, trying to isolate the trigger words or phrases or actions or intentions.

The triggers were all about me being asked to explain myself, why one week i was this, the next week that, and wanting to know if we can get back together.

The projections I used were, I think, none, because i was holding back from saying anything nasty at all. But that could just be my barrier in operation. What do you think?

I was also therefore holding back from telling her I have a new girlfriend.

Do any of you know more than one HPD?

I recognise and respect that I'm in your chatroom, and if you don't want me coming in, just let me know, it's cool.

Yours,

Charlie

TatteredKnight wrote:Yes, a thousand times yes! She can't comprehend that it's possible for someone to have a negative opinion about her or her behaviour simply because of their observations rather than an emotional reaction. So if someone criticises her, it's not because she's incorrect or doing something destructive. It's because they hate her or they think she's a bad person or they want to hurt her.

This is no more true than in my situation with my mother. She even began to go so far as to look for things to get mad about. Things that any normal, sane person would laugh at, she would start crying and say "why are you so vicious to me? Why can't you just love me after all I've done for you!? All I've ever tried to do was love you and be there for you..." The best example was about the new movie Avatar that she saw around Christmas time. Let me give you some dialogue:

Her: "You have to go see this movie! It's so amazing."
Me: "I'm glad you liked it! It doesn't really seem like my kind of movie, but I'll check it out if I get time." (Not planning on seeing it, but appeasing her.)
Her: "You have to go see it in 3D! Don't wait for it to go to video!"
Me: "I'll try." [moving on to other topics]
Her: [bringing it back to the movie] "OMG it's so awesome, it's the best movie I've ever seen and it has such a great message about the direction our world is heading."

Then later, I see this someecards card (I love someecards, because it's so sarcastic but in a funny way). It was not meant to be rude or anything. It was just being sarcastic, while also making a valid point.

Her response: "that nasty card was unbelievable and unacceptable. you should know better than to send $#%^ like that to me. It was vicious. Do not write to me again unless you are going to do so in the spirit of Christmas...and with actual information. I have SEEN the movie. That card is an insult written by a Republican to slam it. This is Christmas week...and that was nothing like something my actual daughter would have ever sent to me. Never again. I mean it."

...What? Even if she didn't like the card and couldn't take a joke, a normal person just wouldn't respond, or say "oh but you can spend $500 million making a movie about getting knocked up?" I mean, it wasn't meant as a slam, and it's NOT vicious unless you're trying to create drama and draw attention to yourself. Plus, look up the definition of irony....not to mention that someecards largely MAKES FUN of conservative/republican ideals, so it's just another way of her making up reasons to be upset for no reason. The truth was, she didn't like the truth in the card and didn't like having her opinion questioned, even in jest, and she didn't just take umbrage with it...she went off the deep end. But she's been out there for awhile now, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised. :\

OH! Better example. When I cut off contact with her on new years eve (YAY!!!!!!!), her response was, and I quote:

"as your mother...my greatest dream was to be proud of who you are...so sad to think that will never happen. i hate having my final time with you...having to accept that you are truly evil...a mother's heartbreak...hope you don't have to deal with the karma you have created"

Oh, she tried. She pulled out all the stops!! Mother guilt, the 'i can't be proud of you anymore' and finally, 'you are evil.'

I'm evil because I was honest with her. I told her that I couldn't take the histrionics anymore. I couldn't take the martyrdom. This information hasn't been new to her for the last two years, and I've tried in every way possible - sweet, gentle, sugarcoated, firm, harsh, and finally, brutal honesty - to get through to her (as you'll probably see if you follow my previous posts). Nothing has helped. Nothing worked. Everything I ever said or did was "you're talking about yourself, Taylor. Not me." I begged her to take a long and hard look at her life and really THINK about the things I've said to her over the last two years. I didn't even say to her, "I'm never speaking to you again." I asked her to read my emails again, get some therapy, show my emails to her therapist, anything. When she'd done some real soul-searching, come back and let's talk. Her response was the above quote.

It's taken two years of endlessly trying to realize: There's no getting through to people like this, unless they realize what's wrong and try to fix it. When she said all that crap, it didn't even faze me. She's just so deluded that I just laughed at it all. She's so pathetic. I showed it to my best friend (who has been the one to read the emails I've sent to her and tried in vain to help me make sure my responses to my mom were always honest but respectful - of course my mother always read them as vicious and cruel and me making stuff up rather than actually telling her my true feelings), and she said, "What kind of mother who claims to love her daughter would call her evil for saying 'GET SOME HELP PLEASE'? If any sane person had to choose who was evil between the two of you, it wouldn't be you. You've tried everything you could to make the relationship work and she's tried everything she could to destroy it." Yet if you ask my mother today, she'll say the exact opposite.

I just wanted to say that I admire the HPDs here who are trying to understand and make their lives better. I just wish my mother was one of them, but at 50 years old, she's convinced herself that it's everyone else, and not her, that's the problem. She's run off nearly every friend she's ever had. She just trades them out for new ones when the old ones run away. I've talked to three of her "best friends", two of whom don't even speak to her anymore, and they all say that they couldn't take her manipulations anymore. Everything is always about her. She'll ask you a million questions about you, but it's only so she can bring the conversation back to herself, or use the information you've talked about in a different conversation with someone else as if the information was her own (she tends to do this a lot with my husband, who is a mechanic. She has no clue about cars but talks about them with such authority that she'd fool someone who didn't know. When he called her on her #######4, she deflected the conversation, and then later, she used the information my husband gave her as if it was her own. She didn't say "my son-in-law is a mechanic and he said 'blahblah'. She says "Well I always thought it was blahblah".

taylorpie wrote:I'm evil because I was honest with her.

Yep. The wall is evil for holding up the mirror while an ugly person looks in it.

Everything I ever said or did was "you're talking about yourself, Taylor. Not me."

I remember ranting to one of my friends, months ago, about how frustrating it was trying to argue with my wife. No matter what I said, her answer would boil down to one of two things: "Me too (but more so)", or "No YOU!"

"I've been doing my best to support you and give you all the love you need." - ME TOO
"I feel like you don't want to commit to the relationship." - NO YOU don't want to commit.
"I've given up a lot to try and keep this relationship going." - ME TOO
"When you encourage guys to hit on you, I feel that you don't respect me or our relationship." - NO YOU don't respect me or you wouldn't try to stop me having friends.

Maybe someone can help me on this. Im an older adult who just found out my mother has hpd. I have spent my entire life being tortured by this woman. I have been accused of things I didnt even know happened, alienated from everyone, I do believe she is "projecting" her issues on me, and she recently decided to tell me that she has always been jealous of me. She has caused me some serious legal issues while she worked in the court building and put my children in harms way. I understand my mom has issues. I dont blame her for that. But I believe she has projected her illness on me my entire life and I have gotten in allot of trouble for this (explains allot). Any thoughts on handling her as well as handling the legal aspect of this? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.