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Punished for jealousy

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Punished for jealousy

Postby koos12 » Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:26 pm

Has anyone experienced this? My ex-HPD wife would constantly talk about other men. Anywhere she went; be it an event, work, or even to the playground with the kids she would always talk about the men that were around her. I once took her to a college football game and she stated, " If I went to college like you, I would have slept with ALOT of men!" I could give you 100 examples of this behavior. When I would respond she would say that I was insanely jealous and needed counseling. We were counseling with her Pastor when she started bringing a man that she met at work to church with her. We were separated at the time and were 3 hours away from each other but were counseling every week with her pastor. She couldn't understand why I was upseat that she was bringing this new guy to church with her. All that she talked about was this new guy and how wonderful he was. She confided in this man about our marriage problems. Even the pastor couldn't understand why I was upset that she was bringing this man to sit in church with her. He stated that, "she is being a good witness to him" Does anyone else see anything wrong with this? She finally stopped counseling stating that she couldn't deal with my jealousy and never wanted to see me again. Her pastor said that I blew it because of my jealousy.
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Re: Punished for jealousy

Postby A little Wisernow » Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:25 pm

That Pastor doesn't know HPD's..........


Mine was always telling me about great guys too......and she went to bed with several of them.....
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Re: Punished for jealousy

Postby TatteredKnight » Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:46 am

My situation with my wife over the last few months has been a little similar, and it was this issue that initially kick-started us into counselling.

Jealousy. It's one of those words they throw at you to put you on the defensive and shut down any meaningful discussion of things they don't want discussed. Everyone knows that jealousy is bad and that if you're jealous then you're a bad person and you're in the wrong... right? In fact, jealousy in some situations is a natural and healthy reaction. My therapist called it "justified jealousy" - if a partner, much less someone like your wife who has made her vows to 'forsake all others', is accepting and encouraging romantic or sexual attention from outside the relationship, then jealousy is a perfectly appropriate reaction.

I'm in no way qualified as a clinical psychologist but this excerpt from my own counselling sessions seems relevant. It's possible that she has a strong subconscious conviction that her partner will be jealous, and that she's deliberately baiting you into any expression of jealousy in order to confirm this conviction and thus validate herself. In transactional analysis terms, her 'script' is 'I tell my husband everything because I'm honest with him'. Her 'counterscript' (or was it antiscript?), the subconscious mirror of it which contains her true motivation, is 'I tell my husband about me being friendly with guys who want me and he gets upset, therefore he is jealous and possessive, and I was right all along'. The payoff for her is the confirmation of knowing she was right. If she doesn't get any jealousy response from you (you've played the 'antithesis' of the script) she will be increasingly provocative in order to get you to follow her script. In the extreme case (from personal experience) she'll probably drop that script for 'I am a friendly person who's playful around my friends' matched with the counterscript 'I flirted with this guy and my husband didn't react, therefore he doesn't love me and I feel abandoned, so I was right all along (and it's OK to seek this kind of attention from other guys).'

My last thought would be to question her pastor's qualifications as a counsellor. Don't mistake 'counselling' (as in being a sympathetic ear and a shoulder to cry on when needed) for actual psychotherapy (which requires years of intensive study). It sounds to me more like the pastor is one of her sources of supply than a genuine third party with training in psychology.
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Re: Punished for jealousy

Postby koos12 » Fri Jul 31, 2009 2:12 am

Thanks for the comments. I agree that she is looking to her pastor for supply. I don't think that her pastor has a clue about HPD. If I would have known about HPD when we were still counseling, I would have brought it to his attention. I'm not sure that he would have confronted her though. He seems to ignore her bringing a different man to church every couple of months.
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Re: Punished for jealousy

Postby Musician924 » Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:22 am

Hello Koos:
Your questions are awkward ones. I think it is possible for men and women to be very good friends without any initmate conotations. I don't see marriage as a lock and key to personal freedom, after marriage people still have their own paths to take, their own lives to lead and their own friends to have. Marriage should be a partnership based upon trust, and if you had trusted each other, and if you had more confidence in your self, I don't think what you describe should have posed major problems. I have one or two very close women friends, but I would describe the relationship as brotherly-sisterly. One of these always takes me in her arms when we meet, but it is because we are humanly close, not sexually close. There is no ambiguity in this. However, there are limits, when for example blatant flirting with the opposite sex is used in front of a partner as a tool deliberately to create jealousy, this is a quest for power over the other through belittling and humiliation (for whatever reasons). If i were you I would try to really think about the facts, then determine as neutrally as possible if there really was cause for alarm :wink: ! Easier said that done, I know, but worth a try

Bye,
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Re: Punished for jealousy

Postby Sledge » Sat Aug 01, 2009 5:00 am

The way Tateredknight described it is exactly what mine would do to me. Another thing she would do to make me jealous is by using what I call a "fill in the blank statement". By this I mean she would say something vague and leave lots of openings without meanings but enough to make me fill in the blanks with $#%^ she new would torture me. Also I would like to mention that the pastor has no clue what HPD is and so he only sees things for what they are. This is my take on the deal, if youre trying to work on a relationship the last thing you do is start bringing another guy with you even if is to church. She knows you dont like it thats why she does it.
“It hurts to love someone and not be loved in return, but what is the most painful is to love someone and never find the courage to let the person know how you feel.”
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Re: Punished for jealousy

Postby caro81VA » Sat Aug 01, 2009 3:51 pm

I think there is a strange relationship between HPD and religion that maybe hasn't been explored much... I don't claim to fully understand it myself. I have seen several posts on it here that haven't really gone anywhere.

However, applying my own experience, I would say in this example the HPD could be specifically bringing her friend to church because it simultaneously makes her into a saint and a martyr. Saint - because she is being a 'witness' as the pastor said. Martyr - because she knows you aren't going to like it. Lots of attention, either way. That's powerful stuff to the HPD.

I've seen both my HPD, and someone else I know who I'm pretty sure is BPD, use religion in this way. Depending on the type of church and the role you are taking, it can be a very powerful platform for attention and affirmation if you do any of the following: have religious/supernatural experiences, bring others to church, witness or offer prayer requests, answer altar calls, play music or sing, or ... worst [i]and possibly most telling[/i] of all, preach. I suspect that in older HPDs, religious experience can completely supplant sexual experience without changing the PD itself.

Not to say that all HPDs have to be religious. But again, I do think it can be a really powerful platform for them. And it goes without saying that their religious experience is just as fake as everything else about them.
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Re: Punished for jealousy

Postby TatteredKnight » Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:19 am

I agree that religions are a gold mine for HPDs. They certainly have the martyr/saint thing that Caro was talking about (seduce a guy, drag him to church, simultaneously earn supply from the pastor for bringing a new sheep into the flock, and create drama in personal life while claiming to be 'doing something noble' leaving them to paint themselves as the martyr). There's also huge potential for drama, what with seeing visions, loudly claiming to have been 'touched by the lord', competing in 'more-devout-than-thou'. Then there's the chance to stir up conflict among the flock. And all that suppressed sexual energy floating around, all those young guys who due to their convictions will offer supply without asking for sex! And of course they can play the role of succubus and try to seduce the church ministers.

Above all, there's the fact that religions tend to be very black and white, which fits perfectly with the split world view of many PDs. Heaven and hell, right and wrong, good and evil. No place in the church for "bob is a friend of mandy and sally and mandy's behaviour is hurting sally, so bob asks mandy to change her behaviour, but he doesn't think mandy is a fundamentally bad person".
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