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feeling hopeless

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Re: feeling hopeless

Postby vertices » Sat Sep 12, 2015 4:48 pm

xdude wrote:Hey vertices,

I think most people who are reasonably mentally well are also unaware that they have a general sense of well-being, maybe even self-talk at an on-going level, except that their persistent inner monologue has a positive spin, and if anything we might even say that's a positive way to live. They might not even be aware of their own inner monologue, but why would they be, they feel generally good about themselves.

I suppose it's hard to imagine what it's like if those self-talk messages are mostly negative, and have gone on for as long as one remembers.

As much as it would be nice to say a few encouraging words and poof, the negative messages would be gone, it just doesn't work. A few positives now may be highly appreciated, but it doesn't change that if someone's core sense of self is damaged, that doesn't go away. It can be covered up for a time, distractions, moments of feeling good, etc., but it's still there.

Being truly loved helps, but the worry there is that we will sabotage it. I think many of us still need help to essentially start over. Tough to do and probably even then someone with a cluster B personality is always going to have a perspective that is different than someone who had a relatively normal, positive, upbringing.


Well, also our definitions of love are distorted so kind words don't even feel like a loving thing. Anyone with a PD has been trained to keep attempting to meet certain conditions that feel like love, but then it's about those conditions and not about the real people with real feelings, and the conditions are temporary so we are constantly patching up a sinking ship.

Yes we will sabotage true love because we either don't recognize it or it doesn't even feel like love. After all, people are not psychic, feelings have to get communicated somehow, whether thru words or actions, or they just don't amount to anything. So idk if it's that we need a LOT of affirmation that we are loved, but, we need the right kinds of affirmation.

I actually see it in terms of our energy, which is kind of like supply. Until we become healthy and interdependent we are constantly asking people to give us their energy somehow, but we spend more energy asking than we get back when it works. If we learn to believe that we don't have to modify our behavior to get people's energy, then we will start to feel loved for traits of ourselves instead of specific conditions that our whole self once existed in.

I guess the most disappointing thing about being truly loved is understanding that nobody is loved by one other person for 100% of who and what they are. That is the kind of love we can never make up for. But, I guess that between lots of different people, all or most of our different traits can be loved.

Not gonna lie, I still dream of and yearn for that 100% love though. Like, someone so perfect for me that we were just born to love each other. But, probably the best we can ever hope for is like, an 80% true love, which is much more reliable than a 100% imaginary one.

Uh, I hope that makes sense.. lol. I also still don't totally know what I'm saying because IDK what my self is truly like yet. It definitely is hard when you have a PD and you're used to defining yourself by things that aren't really about who you are, it takes a lot of time and hard work to let go of those things and just see your boring, plain old human self beneath it all.
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Re: feeling hopeless

Postby xdude » Mon Sep 14, 2015 10:58 am

Hey vertices,

Yes, understood about the dreams of that 100% pure love, but also yes, it's not realistic. What is realistic is finding someone who cares, who looks forward to seeing you, who enjoys spending time with you, and who mostly treats you well (anyone is going to make mistakes as well as have their own need, and sometimes needs/wants clash). In reality that's all a good parent would do too, but understood why holding out for an extreme feels like it could repair what was missed in childhood.
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Re: feeling hopeless

Postby vertices » Mon Sep 14, 2015 5:42 pm

xdude wrote:Hey vertices,

Yes, understood about the dreams of that 100% pure love, but also yes, it's not realistic. What is realistic is finding someone who cares, who looks forward to seeing you, who enjoys spending time with you, and who mostly treats you well (anyone is going to make mistakes as well as have their own need, and sometimes needs/wants clash). In reality that's all a good parent would do too, but understood why holding out for an extreme feels like it could repair what was missed in childhood.


Yea...

I think I wanted that pure love from my dad, who never showed any slight signs of love, never said I love you, never hugged me or did anything for me, but also held me to standards of perfection and constantly criticized and invalidated and controlled me, and when I would break down crying and tell him how it felt he suddenly acted like he cared and like nothing was wrong, then nothing would change. He would tell me how I'm supposed to be but not give me any help or support to be that so it just felt like he resented having me around. But paradoxically the only time he even attempted to care was when I made a scene about it.

So when someone esp. a super introverted, lofty, off limits sorta person like him gives me even just a little bit of recognition or affection it's intoxicating and I want more. Because I wish I could have that without having to simultaneously be terrified of his hatred of me if he saw my imperfections and my complicated feelings. so I can only love at a distance and fantasize about closing that distance, but if I actually had the chance to, I probably would run the other way...... I guess you're right. That's the point where the inner self loathing gets the better of me. :(
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Re: feeling hopeless

Postby xdude » Tue Sep 15, 2015 11:16 am

Hey vertices,

Unfortunately I don't know of any way to make up for a parent who didn't care about us. Having grown up with one, well...

The only thing that I found that works to a degree is to make a choice to start over with a 'I'm going to choose to love me'. It doesn't feel right because it's not the same, it still feels lonely, but hey, I guess different paths in life for some. On the positive side, there are plenty of people who have been through what you've been through to varying degrees so you really don't need to be alone. I do think two people with PDs can potentially work and share a common bond, but you both have to be self-healthy enough to maintain your half.

I think it was masquerade who had written that for all the changes she went through, she also knew that it was still going to be a lifelong process for her. I really liked that thought.
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Re: feeling hopeless

Postby Fr4nz83 » Tue Sep 15, 2015 12:32 pm

xdude wrote:Hey vertices,

Unfortunately I don't know of any way to make up for a parent who didn't care about us. Having grown up with one, well...

The only thing that I found that works to a degree is to make a choice to start over with a 'I'm going to choose to love me'. It doesn't feel right because it's not the same, it still feels lonely, but hey, I guess different paths in life for some. On the positive side, there are plenty of people who have been through what you've been through to varying degrees so you really don't need to be alone. I do think two people with PDs can potentially work and share a common bond, but you both have to be self-healthy enough to maintain your half.

I think it was masquerade who had written that for all the changes she went through, she also knew that it was still going to be a lifelong process for her. I really liked that thought.


Indeed, and we have very recent examples of these kind of "collaborations"...just see how the interaction between pedsmommy (who is really forward in her progresses, hats off!) and evelyne (who has a remarkable capacity of introspection and just started her journey) was beneficial for both of them!
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Re: feeling hopeless

Postby vertices » Tue Sep 15, 2015 4:44 pm

xdude wrote:Hey vertices,

Unfortunately I don't know of any way to make up for a parent who didn't care about us. Having grown up with one, well...

The only thing that I found that works to a degree is to make a choice to start over with a 'I'm going to choose to love me'. It doesn't feel right because it's not the same, it still feels lonely, but hey, I guess different paths in life for some. On the positive side, there are plenty of people who have been through what you've been through to varying degrees so you really don't need to be alone. I do think two people with PDs can potentially work and share a common bond, but you both have to be self-healthy enough to maintain your half.

I think it was masquerade who had written that for all the changes she went through, she also knew that it was still going to be a lifelong process for her. I really liked that thought.


Yeah, there is a comfort with pwPDs. I get a pinch of the same thing with you I have with my best friend, kind of an alone together feeling that is at least more comforting than being alone. I try to resist psychic forms of communication since I'm getting better but it feels like I'll always be at least bilingual. I'll always be aware of what people are saying on a psychic level.

I also used to sort of um, put psychic "hooks" in things I said to people in order to keep them interested in me and when I started resisting the urge to do that, people became a bit more indifferent to me and accepting that is certainly going to be lifelong.

I can fit in well with nons on the surface there's just the constant undestanding that I'm "putting on" but they actually are this way all the time. That feels weird.

Idk if you can relate to that or not. I mean I still feel different even than pwPDs but it's whatever.
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Re: feeling hopeless

Postby vertices » Tue Sep 15, 2015 5:08 pm

Fr4nz83 wrote:Indeed, and we have very recent examples of these kind of "collaborations"...just see how the interaction between pedsmommy (who is really forward in her progresses, hats off!) and evelyne (who has a remarkable capacity of introspection and just started her journey) was beneficial for both of them!


See now one thing I'll never get, I mean i'll never understand what it feels like, is how dudes get burned by swHPD and then come on here to pat other wittwe HPDs on the head for being soooo self aware. It's clearly infantilizing but I mean ofc that is why you dated swHPD to begin with. But like, does just doing that actually help you feel better about what happened? Makes me wonder if people I left behind are like that. Maybe I don't want to fully be a non because I can't imagine getting close to someone who had emotional power over me, who could leave me and I'd actually be wondering wtf happened. I think I like the excitement of falling in love but if it is 100% mutal i feel like the ball is forever in my court and idk what to do with it anymore. Maybe I lose respect for someone who loves me bc I think only someone pathetic would be able to.
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Re: feeling hopeless

Postby xdude » Tue Sep 15, 2015 8:32 pm

vertices wrote:...I can fit in well with nons on the surface there's just the constant undestanding that I'm "putting on" but they actually are this way all the time. That feels weird.

Idk if you can relate to that or not. I mean I still feel different even than pwPDs but it's whatever.


It's why I've taken a time-out in life from feeling. The reality is I know now that a part of me wanted the ups/downs, the intensity of those insane fights and highs too, so in retrospect no surprise I'm here now. Another part of me just wants peace. So since no matter what I'll be discontent, I've been good with feeling numb for a while.

I can fit in well with my co-workers, and NONs on a limited basis, but the thing is I still find myself bailing on many of the social activities with them. It's an effort for me because while they do seem all happy and content, my mind is still full of dark feelings. A good day is one in which I'm too busy and distracted to think about it.

I am never going to be a NON in feeling, and I'm doubtful you ever will be either. That's okay. I use my intellectual understanding to cope. I've learned a lot of things about myself intellectually, and that helps me to avoid feeling it, but that's not so great either. Yea when you grew up with a parent that just didn't love you, tears you down over and over, well... it affects you. Writing about it here and communicating with others who have been through similar helps some though.

I got a pet lol. Another distraction, but the great thing about a pet is they can love back just cause.
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Re: feeling hopeless

Postby vertices » Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:45 pm

xdude wrote:
vertices wrote:...I can fit in well with nons on the surface there's just the constant undestanding that I'm "putting on" but they actually are this way all the time. That feels weird.

Idk if you can relate to that or not. I mean I still feel different even than pwPDs but it's whatever.


It's why I've taken a time-out in life from feeling. The reality is I know now that a part of me wanted the ups/downs, the intensity of those insane fights and highs too, so in retrospect no surprise I'm here now. Another part of me just wants peace. So since no matter what I'll be discontent, I've been good with feeling numb for a while.

I can fit in well with my co-workers, and NONs on a limited basis, but the thing is I still find myself bailing on many of the social activities with them. It's an effort for me because while they do seem all happy and content, my mind is still full of dark feelings. A good day is one in which I'm too busy and distracted to think about it.

I am never going to be a NON in feeling, and I'm doubtful you ever will be either. That's okay. I use my intellectual understanding to cope. I've learned a lot of things about myself intellectually, and that helps me to avoid feeling it, but that's not so great either. Yea when you grew up with a parent that just didn't love you, tears you down over and over, well... it affects you. Writing about it here and communicating with others who have been through similar helps some though.

I got a pet lol. Another distraction, but the great thing about a pet is they can love back just cause.


mhm mhm I actually got into the exact same headspace, like, intellectual coping. It was T who made me start doing that ironically because I wanted to do a really good job of getting better so I would make T happy with me.

however T didn't want me to get better but wanted to HELP me get better. So I had to spend several painful months developing some awareness all on my own while T had stopped treating me special. The awareness relieved a lot of my anxiety and some of the intense emotions by putting them into context. But, mostly I realize that the emotions are still there I'm just keeping them at bay and trying to stay a bit stoic and detached. I feel like I have choices now but deep down I still want to make the emotional choices, I'm just less anxious and inhibited about them. And I never knew just how dependent of a person I am until my bf isolated me.

My problem is my whole self concept revolves around whoever I am closest to in my life so I can't just work on myself and ignore other people. I really need someone to give me a reason to be me. :(

Also I don't LIKE being in this intellectual headspace because every second I spend like this is one second of not getting what I want from people. It's so infuriating to me to think that I have to give in and live a standard ordinary life and the problem is I just have zero motivation to do that for my own sake. It's actually infuriating and horrifying to think that there are consequences to my actions and esp. my inaction. I desperately need to be around people and once that thread is broken it is pretty devastating, the level of aloneness I have felt is unreal, as if nobody else even existed in this world at all.

Do you feel like when you are avoiding your emotions that you kind of lost one of your strengths/your vitality? Do you feel like you have severed your connection to something you are lost without? Also I'm curious what you mean by dark feeligs, like jealousy or rage?

Anyway I don't want to have a pet, I AM a pet lmfao
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Re: feeling hopeless

Postby xdude » Wed Sep 16, 2015 1:07 am

vertices wrote:Do you feel like when you are avoiding your emotions that you kind of lost one of your strengths/your vitality? Do you feel like you have severed your connection to something you are lost without? Also I'm curious what you mean by dark feeligs, like jealousy or rage?

Anyway I don't want to have a pet, I AM a pet lmfao


Yes there is definitely a cost, a loss of vitality, but numb is good sometimes. Dark feelings means my own constant self-criticism is an ever present cloud; I'm working on it but except for when I'm busy at work it's hard to stop.

and lol ;)
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