Apologizing to an N

Hey LW,

You sound so clear minded in paragraph #1. I like it.

Para #2 startes with thinking you have been discarded. Not sure I agree. If he does anything to stay in touch, keep you on the hook, then you haven't been totally discarded. And you face your own temptations to keep trying. Time will tell there...

Me? Wits end? Yes and no. More clarity phase leads to my own backlash phase where my brain gets tired and I "don't care" for an hour or so, then feel some residual anger or at least resentment, then feel relief to be further along in feeling strong and wanting to keep my own progress/recovery going even further...then he picks up on my mood and feels more relieved or something and just keeps showing various categorical improvements, and I get a slight bump in hope.

Then we have a tiff (although they keep getting farther apart and less intense) and I either A) react less, and actually feel less,or maybe don't react at all... or B) react firmly with calm "that won't fly anymore" comments, or a look that says the same, and I still feel less triggered, or worried about his next reaction. Both are good strides for me to be making, I think.

And that starts the cycle over again. I feel even MORE confidence that I am taking care of myself finally, and am headed in a good direction, and I feel even less concern for any eventual break-up if this doesn't keep looking hopeful (I figure I will face the heartache of that later, not now, and this is doing wonders for my blood pressure and angst/fear I used to feel constantly).

The cycles still include negative feelings for me, but this is all headed in an apparently positive direction, definitely for me, maybe even for "us". But I definitely still get bouts of sadness, grief, etc. and they show here in the forum. The amount of time I feel bad vs better keeps getting better % wise, since I joined the forum in December. And yes, you can see my mood fluctuations within the same day, obviously.

Things are better. They look worse at any given point in a cycle if we have a fight or "moment" and I am feeling less inclined to view the intensity of it as something I can tolerate in my life permanently, even if it is way less intense than even a month ago. So I get these flash moments of saying F THIS CRAP! I even say it out loud to myself after I have left the room he is in. Then, 10 seconds later, I think hmmmm...that was actually proof that he is improving, and so am I, since he didn't resort to saying something heinous, and I didn't cry or blow up or try to defend myself or reason with him. Wow, are we really on a sustained upswing? And didn't I tell myself and him as well that I don't expect perfection, and I don't expect any marital improvements to come without moments of backsliding for one or both of us? Why yes, yes I did. So can I get over this moment now, way faster than I used to, and look at the positive side of this? yes I can. ANd is he grateful for that and noticing it too? Yes. And is he looking like he got over it also? Wow, in many cases, he really is lately.

So LW, things are better, but you are along for my ride if I keep writing here regardless of my mood, and you get to see my ups and downs, and wonder, right along with me...if you keep reading! I think the "misery loves company" thing is dead on.

I AM BETTER. I keep getting better. Am not out of the woods yet, that I know. But getting there. He might be as well. If he beats the odds, I will be so happy for him. I just don't want that to be false hope for others, although I am glad if it gives a bit of hope to others.

I am taking better care of myself. What I am seeing in my mood swings via my posts the last week plus is that I am one tired woman, and have been having more little waves of, I don't know, confusion I guess. I think this is because my husband is surprising me a LOT in this same amount of time. He is actually headed in the way I prayed for, but I had just gotten used to the idea that we weren't going to make it, had wrapped my brain around it finally, so I am in disarray again. And am on alert to not let any of this be manipulation and me just falling for great acting.

To be true to this topic, if he makes it thru this to something that is really healthy for us again, I am certainly going to apologize to him for not getting going on this forum earlier, because I will be giving the credit for most of what I have learned that may be helping us to the people HERE on this site.

Respectfully to BlueFlower, I can't bring myself to apply 100% certainty to how turn out in life for two people, even when it looks bleak. So will not be 100% sure my husband and I won't make it...until we hit that point where I know it is over.

I did mean to ask you if he knows you're on the forum. I wondered if he would see it as some kind of betrayal or invasion of privacy. It's not, but you never know how people will feel about it. My mother, for example, would be furious that I write about her here even though it's anonymous. That's how paranoid she is.

It does sound like you're in a better place to me. There's less desperation and vulnerability in your tone, which is a more stable place to approach the situation. It seems like a certain degree of cynicism is called for when it comes to negotiating boundaries with narcissists and other disordered people. Hope is fabulous, but it can be self-defeating if it isn't based in reality, as you know. Your husband actually does sound like he's making progress, but I don't know what it feels like to be the target of his rage at his worst. The threat of that possibility must hang over everything, good, bad and in-between. That must be so incredibly difficult.

On my front, I'm just taking it day by day and trying to grow from this experience. This experience has clearly activated some deep childhood wounds that I am now working on pretty intensely in therapy. If D came into my life to help me heal some old stuff, then I guess I should be grateful to him. Otherwise those wounds would have just been lurking in my subconscious somewhere if he hadn't of shaken things up and triggered my rejection/abandonment issues.

So...cheers to the disordered people who force us to grow. It's not a journey for the faint of heart, but if we weren't strong and thoughtful peopl we wouldn't be on this forum trying to figure this crap out.

Have you looked into any support groups in your area that you can attend in person? It might help to have some real life contact and camaraderie with people in similar situations. If you can't do therapy, at least you would have a skilled facilitator to offer insight and resources. I don't know what your area offers, but Al-anon is always a good option, especially if substance abuse is a problem. I've known people who attended al-anon when substance abuse wasn't the issue, so it covers a lot of territory as it pertains to loving someone with a serious problem of any kind.

Girl, you are freaking me OUT! Because I look around at the topics he may have looked at, commented upon, etc. and I was doing that just NOW, wondering...the self awareness thing that seems to have really started...would it lead him here, where I have found so much help? Would he see what I have written, recognize me/us, and flip over that, or...feel some relief or something.

You spying on my mind? No, I have not told him, although he sees me on the computer a LOT, and shutting it down before I leave the house, or "cleaning it up" and closing windows and clearing browsing before we watch something together in bed. Only because I don't think he is ready, don't want to trigger him...not because I am ashamed of anything I have shared here, or can't stand up to him and say it IS the truth...both my truth and the "what is really happening" kind as well.

Would he see it as a betrayal? Months ago, definitely. Now, maybe. Then again, he is doing so much changing so quickly I can't even catch up lately. And, I think I have been very good about protecting our identity. The only people who would recognize us here and the two of us.

I think he has come to trust that I am not handing this situation over to anyone in a uniform, and he hasn't given me reason to even consider it since the spring. And that, at the time, perhaps still, would have been his greatest fear. Below that on the list would be friends/family hearing something from me, and below that (I assume) is/was his fear of ME "discovering" him...one I bet he has lately let morph into the realization (to some degree at least) that YES, I "know" him more than he wanted me to, and yes, I remember what "has happened" very, very accurately, and am not subject to convincing otherwise.

He doesn't seem paranoid now. He was, with some reason to be (because he was certainly misbehaving on a grand scale) back in the spring, maybe thru the summer and into the fall a bit.

He is making tons of progress very recently, and I hope it continues, and that is a mighty understatement. It means the world to me actually, as he does. I wish I could tell him how well he is doing, but the few times I have tried, he seemed scared by me pointing anything out. Even said so once, after I thanked him for a good day, and he said nothing and looked morose, so I asked how I could tell him something like that and have him like hearing it. He said "I know I should appreciate you saying it, but I never know what to expect and if you are going to say something like (example from when I was last angry) an hour from now"...or he said something to that effect.

So I am proceeding cautiously and playing the experiment "game" on what to do with each moment. One of the things that makes me very tired, but has been working for the most part.

LW, you NEVER want to know what it feels like to be the target when they are at their worst, especially when it is a marriage, not a long distance thing like you mostly have had. Think sheer terror, confusion, shock, life flashing before your eyes, ZERO ability to think straight...with the days afterwards being totally surreal, and not like a pleasant college drug trip with friends kind of surreal.

I don't even want to ever describe the details here, or out loud. I still have some PTSD crap now and then as well, and have shelved some of the stuff I need to face on what happened until I feel stronger and know what the hell to do with any of the feelings I may stir up again inside me. Real therapy, for me, lies down the road financially, if I ever get there. In the mean time, I am my own support system, and doing better than I could have hoped for 6 months ago.

The threat, the possibility of a relapse or new, explosive phase is still there, since I don't know what his "ton of bricks" will look like for us, or if it has coming or that was it already. How much time does it take to trust again, I don't know. It was only a week ago I had several people focused on telling me to get out, or at least stay very, very alert. The best indication I have for where we are on any given day lies in his eyes, and his aura.

I feel like I am reading his aura more than anything else like gestures, words, etc. now. In fact, i know I am. That has served me very well lately, and I mentioned it to him, and I think he is starting to believe that faking things isn't much of a successful approach with me lately. I have called him on some pretty subtle, small stuff lately, and didn't get a fight from him on it. Interesting...

Day by day, way to go! All we have to work with sometimes. Depression is a bitch.

SO glad you are in therapy, recognizing the old wounds, having them addressed with help. My husband has had his wounds opened up again the last couple of years, and last time I mentioned it, I still got a denial response, but that was awhile ago. I have alluded to it more indirectly lately, and it is one of the things he let's pass quietly, which never would have happened months ago.

yes, find a silver lining in this. Not grateful to him, but for the experience for that reason at least. He may be the last person you let into your life that had the power to hurt you this much for these reasons. You may still be hurt by future relationships, but it should be for a "normal" break-up or whatever. Wow, did that come out awkwardly. Sorry.

Yes, thoughtful people seem to stick around here. Not sure we all feel strong from it...I do at least.

Did some support group stuff, didn't work well for me. Too much unfocused crying vs. constructive suggestions from people who were healing, which is what I was seeking. The facilitators are pretty hands-off, so I was disappointed. I can't do any 12 step stuff, it grates on me too much, personally. I would find some gems perhaps, but I don't want to sit thru the stuff I can't take, and the "hi, I'm Jim" stuff followed by the group going "HI JIM!" would have me agitated from the start. I don't like the group dynamics of that. Not meaning to offend ANYONE it works for...just not my thing.


Glad you are feeling stronger, and reporting in daily. I would worry if you didn't...all for now.

BlueFlower wrote:
A narcissist adores a whipped puppy. For a while. Then he will hate you...for being a whipped puppy.

I love this. I need to have it tattooed on my forehead.

deepwater2011 wrote:.

yes, find a silver lining in this. Not grateful to him, but for the experience for that reason at least. He may be the last person you let into your life that had the power to hurt you this much for these reasons. You may still be hurt by future relationships, but it should be for a "normal" break-up or whatever. Wow, did that come out awkwardly. Sorry.

I hope he's the last person, but the odds of that are pretty low. It may not have been a real relationship but it's as close to real as I've gotten in three years. That's how afraid of intimacy I am. I was able to let my guard down a bit for someone who lives 1,200 miles away, but I still ended up destroyed. Go figure.

The closest I've come to marriage was a four year relationship (two of those engaged) and I cheated on him because I'm so afraid to let myself be happy. I guess the past 7 years of romantic disasters is my self-induced karma. Yes, he was controlling and mildly abusive, but it may have worked. He's now married to a woman who rebounded with him out of a 6 year abusive relationship. She probably thought she was trading up, but she went right into another situation where she was controlled and undermined. I'm not sure what my point is. Yeah, I'm mourning a non-relationship but it still ######6 hurts like hell because that's how damaged I am. I tried the marriage thing once and failed miserably before I even got to the altar.

Maybe you chose someone that far away because it felt safer? Yet he still destroyed you.

Yes, it sounds like you are the biggest factor in how the relationships are turning out, but that you are also working on figuring it all out. 3 years sounds and feels like a lot, but you have plenty of time to find happiness and your groove still.

Maybe use D in therapy as an example to see patterns, etc. instead of as the focus of your pain? Because, my opinion, D added to your pain, but the main pain source is inside you and others will just trigger it, even when they are good people (per your own words here), and even more so if they come with major issues of their own that result in abusive behavior that affected/affects you.

Your RADAR for people with issues seems to be used to gravitate towards such people instead of away from them. Maybe you feel empathy for their pain and are initially attracted to that, but they aren't benign enough people to just be grateful you care about them...they end up using your empathy against you.

All just guesses. All for now. Off to work...

He's not a bad person, he just gets easily overwhelmed by emotions and I laid repeated guilt trips on him. That was a huge mistake. Guilt trips are never a good idea, but especially with people who can't handle criticizm.

I've been reading up on attachment theory and a lot of my problems can be explained by an insecure/reactive attachment style. I'm not sure what to do about it, but hopefully my therapist has some ideas.

Hi Littlewing,

You might remember me. I was rather angry (you were very sweet to me) when I was on this site over a year ago.

My ex rarely apologized for anything. I apologized all the time. I did feel like a
"whipped puppy" in the end. But I was no longer apologizing for him but for myself
and my conscious. It was impossible not to be twisted out of character by all the mind
games I went thru. So I acted and reacted out of line. But at the end of the day, I had only
myself to blame for bad behavior. My apologies only justified his feeling of righteousness
and superiority. There is a another side of this.

We broke up 3 years ago. For some reason he continued having contact with me. I think this was an unwise and out of character move for my ex N. This afforded me to email him for the next two years.
And I took that opportunity to take everything I ever said to him back. I told him every bad thing he did to me over and over and over again. It was a luxury. But it did not make me feel any better. Except to know that he probably has doubts that he might not be such a nice person after all.

This last year of 2011 during email contact I became gravely sick with whooping cough and pneumonia. I was hospitalized 4 times. He was never so nice and supportive for the best he could do.
He even slept with his cellphone next to his ear in case I called and needed to be taken back to the hospital. Now I am very healthy. Time and his kindness has soften my pain. It has helped.

But he still treats me and speaks to me so disrespectfully. No other person in my life does this.
It is time to let him go forever. Anger and even sadness.

If I ever should speak with him again, any contact, I will never apologize to him.
He never apologized to me. Instead, he said I lied about the whole horrible event
to save face with his friends.

Hey MsMeow. Your ex sounds like an interesting character, capable of extreme cruelty and kindness. What do you think his motivation was for supporting you through your illness?

I do believe that apologizing excessively is repulsive to them. Best to just cut your losses and move on I'm learning.

Sounds like you made the right choice and are getting stronger. Congrats on being less angry!

@ littlewing good question. I like to think it was love. I could be fooling myself but thats what I like to think. He loved me. Yes. Its a nice thought. Maybe. But sometimes love was not enough. Never thought I would ever say something like that. And yes, it makes me a little angry to think that.

Don't apologize littlewing. Not if it isn't really warranted. You know what I mean.

XOXO