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Do they still love you after they leave you?

Forum for significant others, family and friends of people with mental illness to discuss relevant issues they face.

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This is a support forum for the family, partners and friends of those with mental health issues. This forum is intended to be a safe place to discuss information, give and receive support and learn about all the issues related to being involved with a person with a disorder. Whilst it can be healthy to express various emotions, please remember to be respectful about the disorder itself. This is a place for constructive discussions, not a venting forum.

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Re: Do they still love you after they leave you?

Postby SmileXx » Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:31 am

marylynn wrote:when you state that "she loves you even when she hates you", could you please elaborate. i am also curious why my friend with bpd always tries to get me jealous and mad when we are getting along. could you please give me some insight? lastly, what do you REALLY want your friend or partner to do even when you push them away? thank you in advance for any additional insight...


So, I'm BPD...
They love you whent hey hate you.
True.
Hate is passion. Love is passion. Thin line separates the two... but when a BPD hates you, it's for that second.
It tends to run simultaneously... at least for me.
If I hate you, it's because I love you and you've done something to make me think that I was wrong to do that...
Or I just effing hate you in that moment.
It doesn't deplete my love for you.
I do it to my boyfriend all the time... Emotional whiplash is a biatch.

Jealousy means you care. We're marked by our fear of abandonment.
If you're jealous you care. That's what's going on there... to be simple about it.

And lastly... what do we want you to do when we push you away?
Love us. Again. Abandonment. We don't want to be alone, ever...
And the harder we push you, the more we're hoping it's bringing you back.
When you stop caring we crumble or find someone new immediately.

This is all my experiences, btw... I can't speak for the masses...
But as a rule, if you can find a logical way back to
"afraid of abandonment, will go to great lengths to feel not abandoned, switches from idealization to loathing when expectations are not met (due to feelings of imagined abandonment), etc"
OR
"feelings of emptiness (probably due to feeling abandoned)"
You're probably right.
crimsonandclover wrote:Sometimes the greatest source is from within. And accepting whats in there.

veloruia wrote:We all have a bit of Smile in us.

onebravegirl wrote:Shine on and Smile on my beautiful 2D pal.


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Re: Do they still love you after they leave you?

Postby marylynn » Sun Jan 17, 2010 2:15 am

SmileXx,
You have no idea how happy i am that you replied to me! i really respect your words of wisdom. alot of non-borderlines try to help me understand stuff, but to have insight from someone who might think like my friend, is incredible!! thank you so much!! i REALLY want to be close to my friend. we were VERY emotionally intimate. not so much anymore...she told me we were too intimate and she felt nervous around me, anxiety... i don't want her to feel this uncomfortable feeling, but i want to be so close b/c i love her so much.. ugghh... is it possible?!?
we have been friends for about 2 yrs at this point. so, her former best friend came back into her life. she had been out of the pic for about 3 years. when that happened, we started becoming more and more distant. i wrote her an email stating that i couldnt do it anymore. i know, HUGE mistake!!! since then, i have apologized so much and tried everything to get us close again! nothing really has worked - could you please help me?
when the silent treatment started, i used to beg her to hang out and call me and so forth. about a month ago i finally told her via email i would respect her wishes of distance because she refused to see me or call me back. i was so devistated. i told her it killed my soul, but i didnt want to upset her anymore than i already had. so, i gave her space and she started coming around. we now hang out but maybe once a week during the day with our kids. no more alone time or evenings!! so, my question about pushing me away. you stated, "And the harder we push you, the more we're hoping it's bringing you back." i have been asking her to go to dinner or a movie, but she just says no or doesnt return my calls. when we do hang out, all seems good, but then nothing for about 2 days. if i call or text, she doesnt seem to respond until i leave her alone for a day or two. does she want me to call? what is the best thing i should do to get her to ask me out again? at this point, i always respond in a positive manner, but have stopped initiating the contact. can you elaborate on your quote. it intrigues me.. thank you SO mcuh!!!
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Re: Do they still love you after they leave you?

Postby SmileXx » Sun Jan 17, 2010 5:15 am

Borderline Personality is DEFINED by having abandoment issues. It's our staple in the mental disorder world.

What happens is we find someone to latch onto... thing is that we set these expectations of how they're supposed to treat us too high... When you fail to reach our expectations, which can be as simple as changing plans abrubtly, we feel like you're injured us in some way, so then we hate you. We still love you, need you, want you to be there for us, but if you continue to fail to be the person we've IDEALIZED you to be, then we continue to get more desperate for... not validation, but a sense that we're loved and cared for... It's imagined abandonment... so we have to go find someone else.

It sounds like this friend was the "caregiver" before you. Since you ailed to be what your friend needed, they went elsewhere, friend popped back up and resumed caregiver duties...

Basically you've been replaced.

When a Borderline pushes you away, it's one of two thing. One, we want your attention. We might threaten to hurt ourselves, or actually do it, if we think you'll respond to it the way we want you too (with vast amounts of care and affection and even hostility is a sign of caring). The other option is that we've found someone else, moved on and don't need you at this time.

In the event you've been replaced, there's really only one course of action until the new caregiver person effs up.
Be there when we need you, try to maintain contact and try not to be offended when we blow you off.
We still care and all, but the thing is that there's someone else doing the job you should have done. It's just how it works.
crimsonandclover wrote:Sometimes the greatest source is from within. And accepting whats in there.

veloruia wrote:We all have a bit of Smile in us.

onebravegirl wrote:Shine on and Smile on my beautiful 2D pal.


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Re: Do they still love you after they leave you?

Postby marylynn » Sun Jan 17, 2010 5:49 pm

so, now that i know i have definately been replaced, it seems that i need to come to terms with that. i understand it on an intellectual level, but it still destroys my heart and soul. BUT, as you clearly stated, and i really thank you for all of your insight!, there is nothing i can do at this point, right?. i will respond kindly when she texts me or certainly hang out if she asks, but i need to give her space and time. i try not to show any jealousy toward her friend (even though she throws it in my face at times) and i try to be nice (which i normally am anyway) and validating and loving when i interact with her. i never try to get her jealous or show that i am angry, jealous, or hurt anymore. i used to show those feelings alot and she told me she could not handle all the emotions!!

this is such a narcissistic question to ask, but try to just take it as is please... i (thought and still do think) i am really nice to her. i made her my world. dropped plans when she would call, etc... told her she was my best friend, that i loved her, and thought i backed it up with my actions... don't get me wrong - i could also be mean when i was hurt, i am not a saint!! but overall, i put her needs way ahead of my own needs. always... does or did she realize that? or will she realize it eventually? or does she just think i effed up big time and thinks her other friend is the nice, caring one who she can somewhat trust? i know that it shouldn't matter to me, but it hurts because i really love her and feel like i am nicer to her than this other girl.

will her friend eff up eventually? if so, will she then want to go to a movie with me or dinner with me again? will she ever trust me again - as much as she possibly can? also, what goes through her mind when i ask her to a movie and she ignores the text entirely? is she mad i asked? just curious... and again - THANK YOU for all of your thoughts. i truly appreciate it so much.
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Re: Do they still love you after they leave you?

Postby SmileXx » Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:11 pm

She probably hasn't noticed you were what you were...
The friend will eff up, because your friend's expectations are too high...
Will you get your friend back? Eff knows...

Sorry. Right now, my "caregiver" has fallen short of what I find to be relatively small expectations.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so...
So I'm dealing with imaginary abandonment...
And the fact that I know that's what happening isn't making me anymore rational.
I'm pissed, I'm upset, I wanna cry, I wanna scream why at him and I want to go find someone who will fulfill my ridiculous needs.

Although... for the sake of arguement, here...
Is wanting sex from your LIVE-IN boyfriend such a high expectation?
-Sigh-
crimsonandclover wrote:Sometimes the greatest source is from within. And accepting whats in there.

veloruia wrote:We all have a bit of Smile in us.

onebravegirl wrote:Shine on and Smile on my beautiful 2D pal.


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Re: Do they still love you after they leave you?

Postby marylynn » Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Hi SmileXx,
You are a really nice person! you took the time to answer my questions even though you are really hurt and angry right now. i really appreciate that ALOT. As far as your boyfriend is concerned, no, it is not unrealistic to want sex from him. or better yet, to think that HE wants to be close with you. even nonborderlines will feel sad and unloved when thier partner rejects them physically or doesn't initiate contact. what is going on in his life right now? is he stressed because of a new job or late with bills? sometimes when i am really stressed, that is the last thing on my mind. but if someone continuously says no to me or avoids me without a good explanation, then i would also be very angry and hurt. those are real issues and not imagined abandonment. you are not being irrational...(although this advice is coming from a codependant non) lol!

thank you again for my answers. it saddens me that she probably doesn't see me for the real me. on a positive note, i lmao when you wrote, "Will you get your friend back? Eff knows?" i love your brutal honesty :) can you please give me feedback to this other question of mine. i ask her sometimes to go to dinner or a movie through text. i know she receives the text, but just doesn't respond at all. however, she does respond to other friends on fb or msn, but ignores me completely. we might have had a great day prior to this. we never discuss this scenerio in our next interaction-which i always then wait for her to initiate contact after i get ingored. she never addresses that she blew me off entirely without even texting that she didnt want to go out. does she know she is being rude? is she testing me to see if i care? should i stop asking her to hang out? does this piss her off or does she like that i show i care? what goes on in her head?? what would you suggest i try? i would appreciate and LOVE to hear your insight!
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Re: Do they still love you after they leave you?

Postby scarlett321 » Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:40 pm

Oh my goodness, thankyou, I understand so much more now. I am in hell. Moved abroad to a new wonderful life with bpd hubby and kids, hubby had started working for himself. Took all our stuff over. After 4 weeks I was bringing one of my sons back to UK, hubby cried when I left. On way home phoned and said he wanted separate. I drove 550 miles back to see him, he was like ice, threw me and children out. Got back to UK in terrible state, find house ebing repossessed, debts everywhere, no furniture, no clothes. Went on his emails and he had 2 days previously started an affair, wanted to marry her within 2 days, said he had found love of his life and such horrible things about me, said he couldnt wait for me to leave etc. In the 8 weeks since I have been back he has never phoned unless he wants something. His tone is full of hate. He wanted immediate divorce straight away and was pushing for this. Then it changed to can't afford divorce but still want one. Now its just separation. Can't understand that bit. Also says he can't afford to return our stuff but his bank statement has arrived and more than enough to send it back, instead of which he bought yet another mobile phone for £550 plus loads restaurant meals. Told his Mum he still loves me, but doesn't sound like it and that he was a failure and couldn't afford to keep us. Is that an excuse or do BPD's think that could be true. I thanked and praised him everyday for what he did for us. Guess I have been replaced, the woman in question I know was after him, but I always trusted him so much and he was so against adultery. Said he would kill me if I ever had an affair! Does it sound like the stress has caused this, and what are the chances do you think of him coming round from this. His Mum reckons he is having trouble coping new country, language and self employed. Woman he with been there 5 years so very useful to him too! What do you all think please, I am absolutely devastated.
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Re: Do they still love you after they leave you?

Postby SmileXx » Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:53 pm

Actually, the bf just isn't a sexual person, most of the time.
We only had sex twice in November...
There's a long drug and stripper explanation for it, and I know that, and usually it doesn't bother me, because I have a... not fear but avoidance to sex... for reasons I won't go into (also drug related but drug and hooker related... oooh)
Anyway, what bugs me is that I can't turn him on... I'm his gf... he moved in with me.
While he might love me... why is he so lovey if he doesn't want sex...
It's just... aggrivating...
I can turn on any guy from here to forever, about...
I can do it via text!!!!
Not the bf.... not in person either...
It's driving me batty...

Your questions...
I dunno if she knows she's being rude. Probably. She probably doesn't care because she feels betrayed by you since you couldn't live up to her expectations. That's how it goes.
If you persist or stop isn't going to make much of a difference... She'll act the same way regardless. You've been placed in teh background noise of her mind. You're no longer something she pays much attention to.
It happens... she'll probably lapse when her friend fails, though... and then she'll look for someone, anyone, to fix it.
crimsonandclover wrote:Sometimes the greatest source is from within. And accepting whats in there.

veloruia wrote:We all have a bit of Smile in us.

onebravegirl wrote:Shine on and Smile on my beautiful 2D pal.


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Re: Do they still love you after they leave you?

Postby DowntownDC » Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:44 pm

Scarlett, I am saddened to be welcoming you to the BPD forum at a time when you are in such pain. I am one of the Nons (non-PD) here at this forum. I will try to answer some of your questions based on my 15 year experience with a BPD wife.
scarlett321 wrote:Does it sound like the stress has caused this?
Yes. Although your husband has had the same BPD traits with him since early childhood, they will get worse when he is under stress. Given that you were expecting a wonderful experience when moving abroad, it seems evident that his BPD traits were mild before the move. It sounds like the move -- especially the demands of learning a new language and working for himself -- has greatly increased his stress level, triggering the meltdown you are witnessing.

Most likely, he is now scared about how long it will take to build up a base of customers for his new venture, which may explain his "I am a failure" remark to his mother. Note that stress is a "trigger," not the cause. The underlying cause, of course, is the BPD he has.

Another likely trigger was his watching you drive away, leaving him behind in the new home by himself. As you must know, BPDs are easily triggered by anything that can be perceived (misperceived, actually) as abandonment. Moreover, they generally have difficulty with feeling that you still love them when you are out of sight (i.e., he probably has an "object constancy" problem caused by his BPD).

Because his BPD traits are now at a very strong level -- as seems evident in the heartless way he is treating you -- he does not trust you and is willing to blame all his new-business problems on you. When a person does not trust you -- and I leaned this the hard way from an untrusting wife -- you can never trust him because he can turn on you at any time he is under stress -- as he is doing now and will do again if he does get several years of treatment. Significantly, as the years go by and he watches his body age and his family members die, his life likely will becoming increasingly stressful at some point.
Is that an excuse or do BPD's think that could be true?
Given his current condition, you would drive yourself crazy if you were to try to tease apart all his lies from his misperceptions. Because the illness distorts his perceptions of you and other people, he may well believe most of the outrageous claims coming out of his mouth. BPDs are able to do that because, when their emotions are intense, the conscious part of their minds is out of touch with the logical adult part. That is the result of dissociation (i.e., splitting).

This is why he will be able to say things that you heretofore could not have imagined any person being able to say with a straight face. During these periods, you are essentially talking to a man with the emotional development of a four-year-old. That is, you are talking to his inner child, the part that takes over when his emotions are strong. With the child, your logic will not make even a dent.
What are the chances of him coming round from this. ... The woman he is with has been there 5 years so she is very useful to him too!
The answer heavily depends on how severe his BPD traits are normally. It therefore would be helpful if you would tell us (a) whether he has been diagnosed as having BPD, (b) whether he is working hard in a treatment program to learn how to better regulate his emotions, and (c) how many satisfactory years (i.e., fairly BPD-free years) you have already had with him.
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Re: Do they still love you after they leave you?

Postby scarlett321 » Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:50 am

Hi DowntownDC, Thanks so much for taking the trouble to explain it all to me. It is so so hard to understand it all, and everything you say makes sense. He was diagnosed after a stressful time in the Royal Navy and injuries, about 15 years ago. He was given electric shock treatment, tried to commit suicide etc, put on Clozaril. I met him 10 years ago and he gradually came of his medication by himself. I thought he was better and didn't really understand what had been wrong with him. I have been with him 9 years. He has been mostly stable apart from one suicide attempt a few years ago after an argument, and it has been mostly anger issues, I had to take him to court once for injuring me. He has never hurt me since. His spending has got worse and totally out of control since he moved abroad, he self harmed a few months ago whilst we were there, cutting all down his arms. He was drunk and going on about his birth mother didn't love him. He was adopted at 7 years and had been abused (not sexual) by his real Mum, all her children were taken away from her. He is not in treatment and refuses to admit he needs it. His Mum says oh by the way he was diagnosed with borderline, and I am so upset cos if I had known I could have helped him all these years and maybe this would not have happenend. I certainly wouldn't have let him start a new business abroad. I have always worked full time too and he has been in and out of work, so I have always been the backbone of support and he lost that when he told me to give up my job. Is it too late to help him? What on earth can you do when they are with someone else????
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