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Avoiding the "forbidden" confrontation

Forum for significant others, family and friends of people with mental illness to discuss relevant issues they face.
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This is a support forum for the family, partners and friends of those with mental health issues. This forum is intended to be a safe place to discuss information, give and receive support and learn about all the issues related to being involved with a person with a disorder. Whilst it can be healthy to express various emotions, please remember to be respectful about the disorder itself. This is a place for constructive discussions, not a venting forum.

The issues experienced by the significant others of those with disorders cannot always be discussed in the other parts of the site in a way that does not trigger those with disorders. Moderators may therefore move threads from other forums into this one at their discretion.

Postby bsc » Tue Oct 26, 2004 4:54 pm

Every week she wants to come with me to the big city when I go to work. Yesterday morning she was very insistant, packed a suitcase, and away we went. Everything was fine, dropped me off at work, picked me up, stopped at store to get somethings to eat. Went back to the motel, watched some good tv, ate, even danced. She showed me the clothes she bought at the store. Said she would take them all back since we couldn't afford them, since I had holes in my undershirt. Here it comes I thought.

Went to bed lovingly, she seemed happy. Four clock in the morning she starts her usual crap. While she is away, "they" are breaking into the house, putting back all the junk she got rid of in the garage. I am glad just before we left we made an inspection of the garage and noted outloud what was there, and what was not. I am sure when we get back she will point out some evidence that something happened while she was gone.

Before we left she said she wanted to come with me, but questioned why I finally gave in. As if to say that if I do something to please her, it is also part of the plot. Can't win for losing.

The four clock in the morning bitching went on till six. We fell back asleep till 8:30. Now very late for work. I got up, ate something, got dressed. I reminded her that unless she wanted to be stuck in motel all day, she needed to get up to drive me to work.

Knowing she had some power over me, she went on and on about the usual. Started getting physically violent, throwing things, breaking motel lamp, banging on wall, yelling, etc. I have seen this before. Reminded me of why I never want to take her.

She finally drove me to work, while telling me she wasn't going stay all week so I had better rent a car. Can't afford that so I may have to cut my work week short. When will I ever learn....
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Postby sisterfriend » Sat Oct 30, 2004 12:32 am

Hey--
I've been away from the forum for a little while now, and come back to the exact same post months later-- I'm sorry you're still in the middle of it all.
Glad to hear you all are still posting. I just dropped in for a minute to let you know how well we are doing. We moved into a little place on the beach and that has been peaceful! Can you imagine me using that word after so much chaos? My hub is still on the Abilify, 7.5 mg per day. Not complaining too much about it, as he knows it helps. The kids are settling in nicely, and making an effort themselves to keep schoolwork up, which sounds normal, no? As well as everything is, I feel I'm still a little shellshocked and jumpy over little things, waiting for the other shoe to drop, but it's slowly getting better and my counselor helped with that. Just because it can happen doesn't necessarily mean it will happen. I just have to keep telling myself that.
So, now that I'm working full time I can check in more often to visit my old friends here! Hugs all around.
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Postby sisterfriend » Sat Oct 30, 2004 12:36 am

Hey--
I've been away from the forum for a little while now, and come back to the exact same post months later-- I'm sorry you're still in the middle of it all.
Glad to hear you all are still posting. I just dropped in for a minute to let you know how well we are doing. We moved into a little place on the beach and that has been peaceful! Can you imagine me using that word after so much chaos? My hub is still on the Abilify, 7.5 mg per day. Not complaining too much about it, as he knows it helps. The kids are settling in nicely, and making an effort themselves to keep schoolwork up, which sounds normal, no? As well as everything is, I feel I'm still a little shellshocked and jumpy over little things, waiting for the other shoe to drop, but it's slowly getting better and my counselor helped with that. Just because it can happen doesn't necessarily mean it will happen. I just have to keep telling myself that.
So, now that I'm working full time I can check in more often to visit my old friends here! Hugs all around.
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First post is up in "announcement please read" I

Postby Tori » Fri Nov 05, 2004 8:44 pm

I wanted to say that I think this is an amazing forum. I posted for the first time up in the "annoncement please read" by accident with my whole story. My ex was DD and possibly PPD.

The Dragon idea has intrigued me and the "not confronting" ( I was and am still very bad with that so maybe that is why things ended as they did I do not know). You ALL have a lot to deal with and I give you ALL credit for sticking by your spouses. If you read my story UP there in the wrong place...I had to endure a divorce as a result of DD and other menatl illness symptoms in my former husband.

His were paranoid, persucatory ( MOSTLY), grandiose and somatic...with a bit of depression and possible schizoaffective thrown in for good measure. It was a THRILL!!!

I found that I called the "dragon" "the other one". And refused to speak to "him". I'd speak to my husband but ignore "the other". I told him that though... my mistake! The "other" accused me of murder and crimes and abortion and infidelity ( ALL untrue). He told my family, my friends. He could not be in social places without the same symptoms you all describe of people smirking at him or making signs toward him or gestures which were threatening in some way. His bosses at work were going to kill him, it went on and on and on. He ceased to functin properly and to this day is untreated and will never be the same. He tried meds and therapy for about a year and gave up on it. I KNOW it was working but he hated it...WHY do they WANT these delusions in their heads WHY would they choose them over a spouse, a child , a family and friends?? It is more powerful than any drug or drink that is for sure!

He too had a messed up childhood, his mother had this, come to find out she too had been hospitalized ( and given electroshock back in the 60's). He was often cold and uncaring yet craved attention and love but never gave it. He was sensitive to the oddests things... again... things that would normally not bother others... botherd him.

I'll continue to read these posts...I wish I had known about this 3 years ago when I was going through my nightmare!

Tori
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First time poster - long time lurker

Postby Tillie » Sat Nov 06, 2004 11:48 pm

Hi Everyone. I’ve been reading your posts for over 5 months now. I’m trying very hard to make some sense out of a friendship that was rekindled this past year.

I was contacted by a kid I grew up with. We hadn’t communicated in over 30 years. He was a beautiful writer and at first I really enjoyed reading about his life. But over time (and I must admit – I was probably a little slow to catch on) things just started to sound more and more odd.

He was extremely proud of his job. He often talked at length (rarely asked me questions about my life) about the “gigantic” project he was working on. Its enormous significance and complexity (in reality it was a big and exciting project). He would work all night. He was convinced that if he didn’t have his important job I wouldn’t be interested in him (probably not true).

He had problems with people at work. He felt people were “attacking” him everyone was “enraged” with him. He was given an unfavorable performance evaluation which his attorney wife told him was “actionable”. Years previous he had been involved with a whistle blowing law suit, and was awarded “hundred of thousands of dollars”.

He was very intelligent and was knowledgeable about Jungian psychology, shamanism, astrology, etc. He liked to “dive deep” into his unconscious. He believed he lived his life through his dreams and wanted very much for us to meet up during dreamtime. He paid attention to synchronicities, and throughout his day “looked for clues”.

He believed Carlos Castaneda, was his taxi driver one evening. He talked about a time he was on the moon. He suspected his son wasn’t biologically his. He thought that perhaps his wife had been unfaithful and his son was a product of that incident. But as it turns out he is pretty sure that his son is the reincarnation of his younger brother (who died in an accident many years ago).

He believes in all kinds of conspiracy theories, thinks black hawk helicopters run surveillance on his house.

At first, he was enthusiastic about our friendship, very supportive and loving. He would cite all kinds of “evidence” and reasons why we should be friends. Write fictional stories which featured us as characters. He claimed to have dreamt of me for years…

I found him utterly fascinating and intriguing. But after a while I began to “confront” (question) him. He would be very upset with me – accusing me of being faithless, and unsympathetic.

He came for a visit and introduced me to some people who he later “forbids” me to ever contact again. And when I asked why, he was very upset and couldn’t understand why I couldn’t just believe that it was “dangerous”. This specific exchange is what led to our break. He became very upset with me because I was unable to accept an edict from him without some explanation or reasoning.

From the very beginning he seemed paranoid, and unable to trust me.

He had a history of psychedelic drug use, and also suffered a life threatening trauma when he was 9 years old.

I know you all can’t diagnose – but this whole experience has shaken my world and I so want to understand what the hell happened. I’m wondering if he wasn’t delusional – jealousy and grandiose type. But then I wonder about other things such as: bipolar, narcissistic, paranoid., etc. Early in our friendship he said he dissociated.

Any thoughts or comments would be helpful. I guess I’m wondering if at first you all perceived your partners idiosyncrasies as intriguing, magical and mystical attributes (as I did).

My “friend” has completely cut me off since he can’t cope with my directness, and I miss him. I am floored by my ability to be so intrigued by his persona….of course I don’t live with him and would probably not feel this way if I did !
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Postby bsc » Mon Nov 08, 2004 8:26 pm

My wife was normal (I think) when she first came into my life 26 years ago. Nothing magical. I just fell in love and then learned to love her as our life grew together. If she was as "crazy" then as she is today, I doubt our relationship would have gone beyond a few dates.

Looking back, however, there were hints as what was to come. There was always some paranoia in her relationships with other people. She found excuses not to associate with most neighbors and other aquantenances. She always seemed to be in some imaginary competition them.

The "looking for clues" comment applies to my wife. Lately (past several months) she refers to clues in the code. The code is taking words apart syllable by syllable, or letter by letter, until she concocts some screwy message that "they" or I am trying to tell her. She calls this the subtext or subliminal message. She always asks me why I can't be straight with her and talk to her directly instead of through these codes. When I tell her to just stop taking my words apart and listen to what I am saying on the surface, she says she can't stop. She has to try to figure it all out with clues I am supplying.

She also "sees" famous people in the most unexpected places. She yells at me for not agreeing that it is who she says.

Intelligence - yes. In the past several years since this started, my wifes vocabulary has improved 3 fold. Her manner of expressing herself is way beyond what it used to be. I am amazed and quite pleased with this aspect of the "new" her, but the cost of this improvement is not worth it.

You imply he is married. Stay away no matter how fascinating you may find him, or you will be posting here much more often.


You imply that he is married
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stay away

Postby Tori » Thu Nov 11, 2004 12:42 am

Hi-

To the person who re-kindled an old friendship with an obviously delusional man--stay away!

You and the other man describe my ex to a tee. He too thought folks at work were after him and that the Black Hawk helicopters were circling our house. His vocabulay increased dramatically as well ( again I kinda liked that part :wink: too).

My--why do so many of their delusions seem the same? There are definite themes and concepts that are almost identical!

Maybe there really is something going on here that the rest of us "normals" are not a part of? If so-- I am glad to NOT be a part of it-- thank you very much!

My ex thought many things and read many things and believed every damn conspiracy theory out there. He was very persuasive until it all began to make NO SENSE and until I became the target of his delusional paranoia. Eventually they turn on everyne who challengs them and they will cut off all contact and they will blame you. You feel awful-- as if you did something wrong-- when in reality you did not and should not feel bad at all. It is a miserable existence and one I will not soon recover from. I will take the memories and the pain with me for a very log time and I warn all who can--to get out of any relationship with such individuals as it can be very dangerous, physically and emotionally to you-- the NON DELUSIONAL , RATIONAL one.
Tori
 

Postby Tillie » Thu Nov 11, 2004 5:26 am

Thanks to both of you for the appropriate and sage warnings...too bad I was so ignorant and got as caught up as I did!

I am suffering from the pain of believing that I did something so evil, wrong and faithless- to make him so angry. I'm mostly distressed by how easily he could shut me out - especially since he went to such extreme lengths to convinced me that we HAD to explore our friendship.

Oh well live and learn...now I know about being delusional....never really knew what the word meant before.


Til
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Postby bsc » Thu Nov 11, 2004 6:12 pm

Tori - you are probably right. The conspiracy is collectively on their part against us in the real world.
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Postby Tori » Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:54 pm

I've been reading past posts to this forum on many different subjects and concerns. I am totally blown away by the similarities we have ALL experienced!! I was alone when I went thru this awful experince with my ex for about 3 years ( of major psychotic breaks) and hind site being *20/20 * and boy haven't you ALL said that here before-- for almost our entire relationship which was 17 years.


He truly manifestd his DD and PD symptoms at the age of 36. That was his first psychotic break when he locked himself in our basement with knives and survival gear and was convinced his employer, our neighbors, our friends and me were trying to kill him. It was a scene I will NEVER forget. It was insane and dangerous enough for the me to be able call 911 and have police witness it and have him hospitalized. He was hospitalized a total of 5 times in a 3 year period. 3 times NOT of his own will and once of his own will and once by a JUDGE! There were smaller indicators all along but they slowly built to a crescendo over about a 3 month period--when he totally broke with all reality.

He took Risperdal and Wellburtin and Ambien and while on those meds we had a WONDERFUL delusion FREE and psychotic free 9 months. After that he went off all meds, delusions returned, he threw me out of my house and began divorce proceedings and called the police on me and accused me of attempted murder. NOT nice-- I was questioned unil they finally saw he was truly insane but they can be, as you have all mentioned, very normal and persuasive at times and he was for a while. His own family believed him for a while and then finally saw he was NOT well and knew I was not the "evil one". He even tried to convince my own mother I tried to kill him but she, never, thank God...fell prey to his persuasive abilities.

I originally contested the divorce due to his mental state and had a judge evaluate him ( this was NOT easy but I found a lawyer who specialized in this kind of thing for a hefty fee of course...)...that landed him back in the hospital on a JUDGES orders. In the end these court proceedings and lawyers fees were killing me so I just gave up and gave in and said I'll be better off without him.

Now...after so many episodes and terrible finacial issues he's $50+,000 in debt ( thank God I read here that others have also experinced the *manic* spending on things--only the best as well-- and many things were survival grear and surveilance oriented)...he's got major money probelms and some of them , of course, have spilled over on to me. I'm just coming out of the debt issues now.

I too saw a therapist to try and deal... I too even had anxiety issues as a result of what I lived with. As in other cases I read here, I too was dismissed by my therapist... and him telling me there was nothing wrong with me...I just had to adjust to what was the matter with my husband and accept that he will never be the same and to allow my divorce to go forward and get on with my life.

So I did. I let go. I got on with my life. I am now re-married and happy but will always be wounded by this experience. I cannot tell you what pain this caused me. I had that man ( my ex) to so many doctors and to one of THE best psychiatric hospitals in the Mid Atlantic of the USA and still...he was not made well as he did NOT want to be and refused to belive he had or has an illness.

Almost every thing I have read in this forum happened to my husband and to me. He thought the same things and acted in the same manners and it was KILLING me...I could not stanb it any longer. But I did fight to save my marriage and I didn't give it up without a fight. He's a sad and very sick man and I feel sorry for him but I also feel incredible anger and remorse.

I could go on and on with the mutitiude of stories but I won't.
I think I am just healing now and it has been three years since my divorce. And I think finding this forum now.. .when I 'm at the end of my experience... is a way to tell me I was okay and I did nothing wrong. Because for years I blamed myself. Now I really see I had NOTHING to do with ANY of it. I see so many of you going thru what I went thru and I feel terrible for ALL of you and KNOW how much of a struggle it is.

I cannot say that I hold out hope that those of you who are struggling against insurmountable odds to save your marriage will...in the end. I know I didn't and it seems as if the psychiatric profession still doesn't know how to treat this illness so I am not hopeful that there will be happy endings. But to those who continue to struggle--God Bless you! I just could not.

Tori
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