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New therapist, new dx, stirring things up

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New therapist, new dx, stirring things up

Postby Clearwatershores » Tue Jul 08, 2014 5:26 pm

Hello, I am writing for help and to clear my own head a bit. My husband has officially been dx'd with DID. We found a doc who specializes in it. I am also seeing a counselor - for me, who at least acknowledges his DID as a "real" disorder, and in that, I can talk things in our life, without her trying to suggest things that we've already tried a million times. We have been receiving this new help for about 11 months now, and recently he just stepped up his therapy (at her suggestion) from once a week to twice a week, and things are really starting to happen. Certain others in his system are revealing themselves and details about things they know that have happened to him/all of them. My husband has no co-consciousness with them, but some of them seem to - with eachother. There are 10 children and at least 5 adults, including 1 woman so far. Although, he does not "know" the things they are saying in therapy, in that, he cannot remember, for himself, what they said (apart from her relaying it to him) he does seem to "feel" it on some level because the appointments drastically effect his moods and...states. ANY amount of stress right now is a NO GO. If he and I have to work together on a regular household matter that carries with it the possibility of a difference of opinion - it goes horribly. There is no even exchange of ideas as two adults might have. Rather an aggressive person comes out immediately to "deal" with it and it is not in a rational, communicative way, but in a raging, belittling, controlling, way. This person does not "hear" what I am really saying, but attaches a "hidden agenda" that he perceives I have. He can never name or explain what that "agenda" is - just that I'M DOING IT, and I'm the enemy. This cuts me to the heart, after 20 years together dealing with all of this.

These reactions might apply to anything we have to deal with in day-to-day life; Something as complex as; Addressing that our daughters are becoming withdrawn from him, not being able to count on a consistent mood or response - all the way to a simple question like, "what are your plans for the weekend." Both can be met with aggression. I HAVE been able to reach him at times, usually quite unbeknownst to me. The other day we were talking casually and I said to him about the "others" that; "their feelings matter." When I said it, he looked as if I had just presented him with the cure for cancer - even though - I have said this very thing several times before. Before we got the dx, and we they thought he was schizophrenic, I had suggested that he actually listen to their voices instead of trying to drug them away. I figured since they were in HIS head, they shouldn't just be silenced. Probably they had something very important and insightful to say. ANYWAY, this time they stood up and took notice to my statement, and it eased his anxiety for a day or two before the boom hit again when we ran into another regular life "situation" which seemed to carry no controversy...wrong again.

I feel as though I am loosing my grip on how to interact with my own husband. It was always like this to a degree, but it's getting more intense. He seems to be switching at the drop of a hat, possibly several times a day. He can be reading us Bible passages in the morning and plan a trip to the beach - and by afternoon the beach is out the window and he's storming out of the house with f-words spouting all the way. I could say or do anything that he might takes offense to or is triggered by, it's over. I have NO idea what to say to him while he's having an episode and he refuses to talk about it later. If I attempt resolution, it's RIGHT BACK where we left off. No amount of time outs work. All rules of communication are out the window. I just don't know how to navigate this at all.

We've been in therapy for years and we have learned valuable things, but it's clear to me ALL OF IT matters little, if only a small percentage of people within his system (maybe only one) retained any of it. He is even has a part time job as Facilitator of an Anger Management program which focuses on healing childhood wounds! Every week, he TEACHES 8-12 other men how to take a time out, get under the anger, identify a "feeling," work it back to the original wound, process the pain and replace it with a truth. Yet at home - none of it applies. He is unable to even time out...much less re-approach the issue later to work toward resolution. We have had negative interactions with eachother almost every day for a month. I am weary and have no idea how to proceed with day to day life with him.

HELP.
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Re: New therapist, new dx, stirring things up

Postby Clearwatershores » Tue Jul 08, 2014 7:01 pm

...another thing I wanted to mention is that, when things get bad and I cry - his reaction is strongly negative. He begins belittling me. This is something I never really experienced before (with him or anyone really) and it makes me feel attacked, terribly alone, and bullied almost. This person he becomes is just so vicious and cruel. If there ARE ten children inside, I wonder what they're feeling when this happens? I imagine them crying too and being scared. Then again, maybe just my crying alone makes them sad and scared and thus, someone intimidating comes out to make it stop? Then again - maybe it's best not to imagine anything... I'm just SO at a loss right now. :cry:
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Re: New therapist, new dx, stirring things up

Postby Seangel » Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:40 am

Hi,

Cool name. *mod edit* :)

Welcome to the forums.

I'm glad to read that both you and your husband have a counselor. It's so important that you have support as well.

Clearwatershores wrote:If he and I have to work together on a regular household matter that carries with it the possibility of a difference of opinion - it goes horribly. There is no even exchange of ideas as two adults might have. Rather an aggressive person comes out immediately to "deal" with it and it is not in a rational, communicative way, but in a raging, belittling, controlling, way. This person does not "hear" what I am really saying, but attaches a "hidden agenda" that he perceives I have. He can never name or explain what that "agenda" is - just that I'M DOING IT, and I'm the enemy. This cuts me to the heart, after 20 years together dealing with all of this.


You mentioned: "There is no even exchange of ideas as two adults might have."

You might be right. You may not be talking to an adult at that moment, but rather to a child, mostly a protector who might see the discussion as a thread, and who is not open to listen. Would it be possible for you to look the situation from a safe distance, not take his action personal (I believe he might be acting this way because of him and his past, not necessarily because of you), and try to ask him what is it that he fears, or that he's hesitant about?

Clearwatershores wrote:The other day we were talking casually and I said to him about the "others" that; "their feelings matter." When I said it, he looked as if I had just presented him with the cure for cancer - even though - I have said this very thing several times before. Before we got the dx, and we they thought he was schizophrenic, I had suggested that he actually listen to their voices instead of trying to drug them away. I figured since they were in HIS head, they shouldn't just be silenced. Probably they had something very important and insightful to say.


This is a very good advice, and certainly they want to be listened.

Clearwatershores wrote:I feel as though I am loosing my grip on how to interact with my own husband. It was always like this to a degree, but it's getting more intense. He seems to be switching at the drop of a hat, possibly several times a day. He can be reading us Bible passages in the morning and plan a trip to the beach - and by afternoon the beach is out the window and he's storming out of the house with f-words spouting all the way. I could say or do anything that he might takes offense to or is triggered by, it's over. I have NO idea what to say to him while he's having an episode and he refuses to talk about it later. If I attempt resolution, it's RIGHT BACK where we left off. No amount of time outs work. All rules of communication are out the window. I just don't know how to navigate this at all.


This is difficult, but one thing that I've learnt from this forum, is that you can help so far. He is responsible to identify what triggers him and to identify why he reacts that way in those situations. Has he brought this up in therapy?

Clearwatershores wrote:We've been in therapy for years and we have learned valuable things, but it's clear to me ALL OF IT matters little, if only a small percentage of people within his system (maybe only one) retained any of it.


This happens sometimes, specially if they are not co-conscious or don't have good communication. Have you tried talking to all of them? Addressing what you say to everyone in his system? Like saying:
"Well, I'm taking to my husband, and everyone in his system who needs to know about this..." and continue: blah, blah, blah.

Clearwatershores wrote:He is even has a part time job as Facilitator of an Anger Management program which focuses on healing childhood wounds! Every week, he TEACHES 8-12 other men how to take a time out, get under the anger, identify a "feeling," work it back to the original wound, process the pain and replace it with a truth. Yet at home - none of it applies. He is unable to even time out...much less re-approach the issue later to work toward resolution. We have had negative interactions with eachother almost every day for a month. I am weary and have no idea how to proceed with day to day life with him.


How good the communication is between them? It seems to me that the Anger Management facilitator could help by passing these tools on to the rest of the system. Can you talk to him about it? Would he be willing to be close to front for whenever there's an argument?

Your post made me think about something, is it common in a relationship with someone who has DID that an alter sees their partner as "the enemy"? If so, why? Is it because it's a close relationship? It's a protections system? Just wondering.

I hope you both find creative and useful ways to handle this situation. Get to know all of his alters, and form relationships with them, they will tell you what is going on in the system, and why some are acting the way they are.

Take care of you as well.

Sea

-- Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:48 pm --

Clearwatershores wrote:...another thing I wanted to mention is that, when things get bad and I cry - his reaction is strongly negative. He begins belittling me. This is something I never really experienced before (with him or anyone really) and it makes me feel attacked, terribly alone, and bullied almost. This person he becomes is just so vicious and cruel.


I'm sorry about this part.

I've felt that way in some situations. For me, it's so hard to receive those belittling feelings. One thing that has worked for me, if I'm not able to handle my feelings, is to text with the other person. When texting I get to express myself easier, and the other person can also think better and not be overwhelmed by my crying. That might help.

Clearwatershores wrote:If there ARE ten children inside, I wonder what they're feeling when this happens? I imagine them crying too and being scared. Then again, maybe just my crying alone makes them sad and scared and thus, someone intimidating comes out to make it stop? Then again - maybe it's best not to imagine anything... I'm just SO at a loss right now. :cry:


You might be right about your guessing, they might be scared of the crying, and someone fronts to stop it. For sure, children inside might feel bad about what others in their system do to you, and might front after, to comfort you.

You're not alone. It is a difficult situation, but there many others who have written here, and found answers. Have a look at some other threads, to see if you can relate and find useful things that might work for your situation.

Take Care CWS.
Sea
Last edited by seabreezeblue on Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: small edits for OP privacy on request.. no further changes.
Taking myself some time away from PF. Sea (Dec, 2016)
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Re: New therapist, new dx, stirring things up

Postby Una+ » Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:52 am

Therapy may be moving a little too fast for your husband right now. You have a therapist for yourself, but do you also talk with your husband's therapist? That might be a very constructive step for you to take right now. Dr Richard Kluft, one of the foremost authorities on DID, often says it is important to make haste slowly, that the slower course of treatment usually ends up being the shorter one.

It is very common for the different alters to not be all on the same page for at least a few years into treatment after the DID diagnosis. You can expect that certain special learned skills that one alter has, others do not have. This is the nature of DID. In effect, the skilled alter needs to be recruited as therapist for the others; this is where co-consciousness is so valuable. This will come with time, hopefully soon!

If your husband was (mis)diagnosed with schizophrenia many years ago he has been treated for a long time with drugs that did not help so naturally his internal system that is beginning to emerge right now is in a bad state: the insiders who have been suppressed are very, very angry and often they are also working at cross-purposes because none of them has all the key information. This too shall pass. Hold onto the thought that they mean well, even though it doesn't seem that way now; they really do mean well, however twisted their reasoning may be.

The belittling behavior you see in your husband now likely is in a newly awakened distinct part, a fully dissociated identity (alter) or perhaps just an ordinary introject. Many otherwise normal people have introjects of their own parents' worst aspects, that manifest only in times of great stress. Introjects can range from latent to very active.

My husband's mother has such an introject; when she gets highly stressed during family gatherings she says incredibly mean things that are very much out of character for her. It is as if she is repeating unconsciously certain kinds of verbal abuse that she suffered in her own childhood. These verbal abuses are called scripts, and are a very common phenomena in the clinical psychotherapy literature if not in popular self-help books. When my MIL starts to verbalize her abuse scripts my FIL always is very calming and tolerant. I suppose this is why my husband coped so calmly with my insiders when they popped out: he was simply following the example set by his own father.

Even though you haven't described in great detail the very difficult problems you are dealing with now, many of us here know all too well what's going on because we've been there ourselves. I am sure your therapist has told you this, but it bears repeating: what your husband blames you for, that you know is not your fault, is NOT ABOUT YOU. It is projections of some yucky stuff from his own past, that he needs to deal with in therapy. Most people engage in projection to some extent, and in people with DID some alters do it far more than others. The most deeply buried insiders in particular tend to project the past onto the present; they are disoriented.

I hope this helps. Most of all, hold on to the thought that you and your husband are not alone. Many others have been where you are now, and survived, even thrived. You will too.
Dx DID older woman married w kids. 0 Una, host + 3, 1, 5. 1 animal. 2 older man. 3 teen girl. 4 girl behind amnesia wall. 5 girl in love. Our thread.
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Re: New therapist, new dx, stirring things up

Postby Clearwatershores » Sun Jul 13, 2014 5:03 am

*Trigger Warning*
Oh, thank you both SO much for your answers. Things have been going so horribly since I posted, I haven't really even had time to look back at this. I have been engaging in conversations with him each evening which I really see now are totally unfruitful and even might be hurting the situation further.

I SEE now it is essential that I acknowledge the fact that, although we are 20 years thick into TRYING to sort this all out - we are only 9 or so months into this, as DID. SEA, you are right, I have always had SUCH a hard time not taking things he says to me personally. While I may know intellectually that he is projecting these things onto me...I am STILL taking to heart most of what he is saying, even if it makes absolutely no logical sense. It's almost like denial on MY part! I just can't seem to ACCEPT that "all of him" is not in real time...he is still "back there."

Early on, when I was seeking help, and I thought that the brunt of his struggles circled around prescription drug abuse, his behavior was so cruel and erratic, I had no choice but to enter into a type of "emotional detachment" from his behavior. It is considered to be a mode of survival while you are working on yourself and HOPING that your partner would also seek help. It was a very lonely time, but at least he did eventually seek help. Little did I know what the drug use was trying to cover for.

To answer your question; yes he does bring this up to his therapist and she addresses it, but he won't tell me what they talk about in that regard. I do talk to her, and she just keeps telling me how early-on they are in the process...they are still trying to establish everyone in the system, rankings, who fits into what, where, when and how.

ALSO, he does not have co-consciousness at all. He does NOT acknowledge acknowledge that he even has DID most of the time, particularly during a ragey "outburst." So, if I EVER mention the "others" or try in someway to "reach" them it is met with extreme aggression. But they, for their part ARE listening...since they reacted very positively to me saying "their feelings matter." So "who" I was dealing with at that point in time is really unknown.

INFACT: I am entertaining the possibility that I may have no idea who is his core personality.

Unfortunately, whoever we have out now, is just angry - very angry, loud, cocky and verbally abusive, TOTALLY unwilling to talk, says "I don't know" to everything ...And presumably anxious - for which he takes Lorazepam...

Sea, as you mentioned too, about his Anger Management Facillitator Self passing on the tools to the rest of the system - I do hope for that. I presume it will take time. From the little I've heard, the insiders have knowledge of each other, but how much they communicate is unknown.

Also, this idea of the spouse being the ENEMY: has always intrigued me. It is so painfully obvious that at least one of his alters consider me this way, because he himself (or what I'm guessing is really him) cannot say enough good things about me and even, "talks me up" to others. When I get introduced to some of his Anger Management students, you'd think they were meeting the Queen of Romania for how they treat me and speak of the wonderful things they've heard about me... It's hard to know how to react! You'd NEVER know it to spend an evening in this house!

The only thing I can connect this with is some info from a class called Lifeskills International. There was a unit that focused on the mother/son connection. Aparently, it is common to run up against huge roadblocks in a husband/wife relationship, if the husband's mother is super-domineering and unnaturally attaches onto the son. This happens alot when she herself, has an abusive, alcoholic or otherwise dysfunctional husband. The emotional bond between husband and wife doesn't form, so SON gets elevated within the family system to the PSEUDO-SPOUSE of the mother. As things move along and the boy grows, he is struggles between his rightful role as a child - since he keeps getting "pulled" into a spousal role by his needy mother (due to her lack of emotional attachment to her own sick husband.) When the boy grows into a man, the theory is, much of his emotional development has been stunted at the point of unnatural attachment to the mom (or even earlier) thus SEVERELY impairing his image of women in general, making spousal relationships almost impossible. This is how I understand, me - being seen as the enemy, in the most basic sense. Granted, it could be SO much worse than that. As he becomes aware of various abuses he's suffered, however much his Mom was actually involved could compound the severity as well. Either way, I am at any given point, the enemy.

UNA: Your insight that therapy might be moving too fast is in line with what HE is expressing right now. Infact, it is the ONLY thing he has actually said about therapy at all. I do talk to her and she feels that they should press on, but is concerned that the cost of doing so might be too high for me and the kids (ages 12, 10, 6, 3) if things are getting this bad. So, slowing it down is an option. In that vein, it is good for me to hear what Dr. Kluft has said, because I do admit; I am so, SO feeling the urgency for things to progress because of how bloody LONG we've been at this - but again, not from a DID perspective. Slower might be better for everyone. Co-consciousness would be nice, but at this point, he is having a hard time even admitting that this is happening, much less being open to do a meet & greet.

I can identify this "skilled alter" you describe, and I have no doubt that if he can get him (her?) on board with counseling the others there will be breakthroughs. Whoever he is, he is very skilled at identifying with exactly where a person is, going to that place, and being able to speak into their lives with insight, information, tools and comfort. It is amazing to watch. He has been able to do this with our children. They have been hurt immensely through these ups and downs. On a side note, I do suspect someone else inside of being "informed" with the same information as the skilled-communicator is, because I have seen someone, an aggressive type, bring up some of the learned tools & info and proceed to flip it around and use it improperly. Knowledge can be dangerous if used in the wrong way.

Thank you for telling me about the introjects and scripts. I have not heard that one before, but there is no doubt scripts are at play here. I've noticed him more recently going back to certain "lines" over and over and I would swear that his father is standing behind him moving his mouth. His dad, albeit a very nice guy who has been helpful to the kids and I, is also an active alcoholic, in conscious denial, fully of self-pity, and an undercover woman hater....except his own mother - who was naturally "a Saint."

Well, THANK YOU BOTH! Everything you've offered has helped so much and if others might find something helpful out of my situation, I'm all for it. As much as this is so isolating and does feel hopeless at times, I'm not alone and for that, I'm thankful!
Last edited by Partial on Sun Jul 13, 2014 5:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Added trigger warning to post
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