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Diary Cards in DBT

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Re: Diary Cards in DBT

Postby MartianRobotGirl » Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:37 pm

DBTDoc wrote:Do you use them? What do you use them for? Are they helpful?

I ask because I'm a DBT trained psychologist and I find that I use diary cards quite frequently. I'm pretty sure that they're helpful so I'm just curious what others' experiences with them are. How do you think they could be more helpful?

Do you think that they could be useful even without a therapist?



I just started doing a diary card this week. I seem to be doing ok with it so far.
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Re: Diary Cards in DBT

Postby anthropologie » Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:05 am

Hm... I for one found the diary card very useful... but only after alot of customization. I've been using a diary card for two years now(whoa, its been a while); in the beginning, it was really confusing, and I would end up not completing it. I've switched formats a couple of times... My diary card now has a special box in the front of each day where I make a mini chronological timeline of events that happened that day. Sometimes one day has several different levels of certain emotions, so the corresponding emotion box would have several numbers in it. I've also added a few columns and taken out some emotions that I found weren't related to my symptoms. The back, where all the skills are listed, was left unchanged.

Basically, use the diary card to target problem areas and important emotions related to the consumer's behaviors (like Guilt, Anger, Misery, Sadness, even Happiness). Make sure it's the consumers own, personal chart, because they're the one who will be using it, to communicate with you, so that you can help them. Er, for example, I know to use the 'misery' scale when I'm feeling depressed and am ruminating, but use the 'sadness' one for when there's legit reasons for being sad, like a loss or a death. They're usually in some kind of combo. The consumer's got to be very clear about what the emotions mean.


Hm, as for.. well, it's only useful even without a therapist if the consumer has the capabilities to assess and interpret the chart objectively, which can be quite difficult to do, especially when the consumer is immersed in emotional mind.

Diary cards aren't products. They're just a chart that can be used to communicate more effectively with your therapist.
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Re: Diary Cards in DBT

Postby moomin » Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:11 am

anthropologie wrote:Diary cards aren't products. They're just a chart that can be used to communicate more effectively with your therapist.



Of course it's a fckin product when it's available at the iphone store!
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Re: Diary Cards in DBT

Postby sbanawan » Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:45 pm

I have said nothing about any app at all. I am a therapist that wants to know how to make a diary card better. It doesn't matter how you do it. I just want to know what makes it helpful and not so helpful.

Is it market research because I have an app out there? Maybe, but I'm a psychologist who uses this stuff everyday. If I *didn't* have an app out there but asked the question, would it be "market research" then? And why or why not? Again, I didn't come in here to pimp anything. I happen to be curious about this and many other therapy issues. If you take offense or the moderators think this is an inappropriate thread, they can delete it. Yes, I have an interest in the answers provided. But doesn't anyone who asks a question?

Remember, I said nothing about my app or my website. Those who are curious about posters can always check the information we are *asked for* in our profiles when we register. And even in my profile information, I say nothing about my app. You had to go 2 steps away from anything I ever said here to find out that information. I don't know what else to tell you if you're that curious...

Now, back to the diary card question: customized diary cards are important. I do that for each of my clients. I have a generic one I start with and then add their own targets and skills as needed. Otherwise, what's the point of it?

The description thing is a little more challenging because it's hard to convey what it is looking for very easily and concisely.

Would you change the rating format at all? Right now, I use a 0-5 scale for many things. Does that seem sufficient or do you do something entirely different?

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Re: Diary Cards in DBT

Postby moomin » Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:53 pm

You really don't think it's unethical for you to do market research here? If you didn't have an app out there that you can sell and make profit from , then no, it isn't market research because the assumption is that you are getting answers for non profit purposes.

We also only have your word that you are a psychologist. Regardless of whether you are or not, you have no interest in the support or well being of the forum members here other than asking questions about the diary cards and pushing DBT treatments. If you really ARE a psychologist, I would be quite concerned about your clients.
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Re: Diary Cards in DBT

Postby sbanawan » Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:53 pm

Z1t23ch3 wrote:Ok, guess I'll have to be the one to say it. What's a diary card? No one knows what your talking bout.

A diary card is something you use to track your emotions and behaviors. I have a sampe one (edited by mod) on my practice site. The idea is that if you pay attention to what you're feeling and doing, we might be able to get a grasp of what's going on for you and eventually work to break some patterns of behavior that create problems for you. It also give me as a therapist a place to quickly jump to the most difficult part of your week. This really helps us with our treatment targeting in session.

-- Fri Nov 18, 2011 8:58 am --

moomin wrote:You really don't think it's unethical for you to do market research here? If you didn't have an app out there that you can sell and make profit from , then no, it isn't market research because the assumption is that you are getting answers for non profit purposes.

I don't understand what you're saying here. Just because I'm employed in this field, I shouldn't be allowed to talk about how the work I do can help? That makes no sense to me. Anything I learn from other posters, app-related or not, can help me do a better job with my clients.
We also only have your word that you are a psychologist. Regardless of whether you are or not, you have no interest in the support or well being of the forum members here other than asking questions about the diary cards and pushing DBT treatments. If you really ARE a psychologist, I would be quite concerned about your clients.

How do you know I have no interest in the support or well-being of forum members? That's an awfully big assumption.

And pushing diary cards AND DBT treatments? That's a lot to say I'm trying to promote. DBT is the best treatment available for BPD, no question about it. So, yes, in a forum about BPD, I'm going to talk up DBT. Absolutely and without apology. Diary cards are a big part of a DBT program and that's what this thread is about. Please, let's take this discussion to PMs if you want to continue it. Or contact the moderators if you really feel this is an inappropriate thread.
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Re: Diary Cards in DBT

Postby moomin » Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:31 pm

I don't understand what you're saying here. Just because I'm employed in this field, I shouldn't be allowed to talk about how the work I do can help? That makes no sense to me. Anything I learn from other posters, app-related or not, can help me do a better job with my clients.


Oh please. You can't even be honest with us. It's a coincidence that the only thread you start is about how to make the diary cards better? It is so transparent. This whole martyr role doesn't suit you too well.

How do you know I have no interest in the support or well-being of forum members? That's an awfully big assumption.

And pushing diary cards AND DBT treatments? That's a lot to say I'm trying to promote. DBT is the best treatment available for BPD, no question about it.


That's subjective. Some people don't agree with DBT treatments. Some people don't get along with it. And no, you don't have the interest of the well being of forum members at heart. You are using us, and you have no idea how many of us have been used before.

So, yes, in a forum about BPD, I'm going to talk up DBT. Absolutely and without apology. Diary cards are a big part of a DBT program and that's what this thread is about. Please, let's take this discussion to PMs if you want to continue it. Or contact the moderators if you really feel this is an inappropriate thread.



I have contacted the moderators. It's up to them to see if these posts constitute spamming. To my eyes they do. This is a BPD support forum, first and foremost. I don't like seeing all these other people openly talking about their experiences with diary cards without realising they're being used. First nons invading, and now spammers, great! :roll:
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Re: Diary Cards in DBT

Postby sbanawan » Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:54 pm

That's fine. I will continue to post until I'm asked otherwise. Again, I never said a word about any app. I don't even know if people would have known about it were it not for you. My website is buried in my profile and if someone is curious, they can see it there. I don't think that's being spammy.

As far as it being "subjective" about DBT - not really. The science is there. Does it work for everyone? Of course not. But is it the best available for most people? It sure is. Again, no apologies about that. And this is what I'm here for - to promote the science of a treatment that works. I'm not saying it's the best for you or anyone else in particular, but it is the wisest place to start.
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Re: Diary Cards in DBT

Postby cboxpalace » Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:57 pm

Moomin, you know I love you to death, but I kindly disagree with you on this subject for a few reasons.

1. I don't see this as spam, as there isn't a link to the product (didn't see one at least), skimming thru the posts I've seen references, but nothing that would be a hard sell approach.

2. I don't even get the sense he's really pushing people to take dbt. Really, why would he? It's doubtful he has much if anything to gain from it.

3. I simply see questions asking those who use the dbt cards is there a way to make them more useful or more effective. Why not ask the ones that use them? It's relevent to them the more effective they can be the better.

4. DBT isn't for everyone, it really hasn't been all that effective for me, but I still suggest anyone give it a try because it may be effective for them and worthwhile to try.

5. That's great if there is an app for this product, because most people probably don't wanna carry around a paper to fill out. Everyone uses cells, and the easier it can be, the less time consuming, the more likely people will fill it.

I'm not trying to argue or start anything..... It's just another opinion. If I have any gripe the thread should've been marked **Non**. I can see though how these would questions would be relevent to someone that used these cards. Also, if a bunch of psychs got together to brainstorm how to make them better and f**k it up, I can see people with bpd saying, "Why don't they just f**kin' ask us"...
Anyways, this is my 2 cents on the suject, and nothing more than an opinion.

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Re: Diary Cards in DBT

Postby cboxpalace » Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:09 pm

I will take Moomin's side on one issue, and a relatively big one for me, as well as, others. I DON'T want you to feel that we hate you, because most of us don't.

I have NO problems with you creating a thread to ask your question, and provide answers to those questions in THIS thread. It should be marked non to give those that have issues with Non's postings, and there are a few that do, the option to bypass the thread and not be surprised and triggered.

I do take issue with you responding to a bpd thread knowing that your a pshychologist.

1. Many of us have our own Psychologist/Psychiatrist.
2. We're here to get support from people like us, and in many cases may not be interested in the opinion of a Psychologist/Psychiatrist who only knows bpd from an educational standpoint and not from a life experience. If I created a thread I'm more interested in hearing what Moomin has to say than you. In fact depending on what you say, and how you say it... you may face some very harsh words from me. Moomin, is another one that I feel comfortable in saying she'd be upset if you responded to one of her questions. So the problem you face is how do you know who minds and who doesn't. This is relevent because you could be triggering to some.
3. I'd be curious to the input of a moderator on this subject/topic.

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