Is Faith Even Possible?

As I continue to struggle one of the hardest things to cope with is the complete loss of my faith. I used to be fairly religious but as things have worsened I've gotten to the point where I just don't believe. It's not that I don't believe that there's a god It's more that I just don't see the point in it. If there is a hell I'm more then likely going there so what's the purpose. I see myself as so bad and beyond fixing or saving that its just all so hopeless. I can't even consistently tell the truth to my therapist let alone pray, depending on what way my freaking mood swings who knows what I'll say in prayer.

Does anyone else have any struggles with faith or maybe god and BPD just aren't compatible...

batcap wrote:It's not that I don't believe that there's a god. It's more that I just don't see the point in it. If there is a hell I'm more then likely going there so what's the purpose. ...

Does anyone else have any struggles with faith or maybe god and BPD just aren't compatible...

Do you get anything from the story of Job? You wouldn't be able to speak to people suffering mental illness without knowing what it's like?

The whole "would a caring God allow suffering" is interesting. I've' been following an increasingly mainstream theory of quantum mechanics which holds there are infinite parallel universes existing in 10-11 dimensions. Basically, every choice you could have made, every parent you could have had, every possible outcome of your life (including not existing) is happening. Somewhere in the multiverse I'm the President of the US and you're the artist formerly known as Prince. In a different universe earth escaped the meteorite dinosaurs are running through our living room right now.

It sounds crazy. Hugh Everett, the father of the leader of The Eels (an alternative rock band) proposed the theory in the '50s. He was laughed out of academia. Today, it's almost accepted as a universal truth and he's considered to be of the caliber of Einstein and Newton. (I can find a video about it if you're interested).

I think it's interesting because, from a spiritual perspective, it answers the dichotomy between free will and predestination (which must exist if God is omnipotent). As an individual you experience free will. But, at a higher level, there's always a copy of you that chose differently. For every quantum event (choice) a copy of you forks off into another universe where you didn't make that choice. Not merely a copy, but at the atomic level it is you. (The multiverse theory was developed to explain how electrons can exist everywhere at once. Us being made of electrons, does that mean we exist in more than one place at once? That's the theory.).

For some reason that explains things to me. That there had to be a me who is sick. But, at the same time, somewhere there is a me who isn't. It's almost redemptive because wherever you're at, you have the opportunity to make the best of it. For example, I regret I didn't seek help decades ago. When I made those choices, a copy of me forked off and made the choice to get help. Somewhere there is a me who had a more normal life starting at an earlier age. (Likewise, somewhere there's an even more stubborn me who rejected the obvious a year or two ago when I began to face the truth. I'm glad I'm not that guy.).

I don't know. Maybe I smoked too much 420 when I had those ideas. But, it really is scientific and, to me, explains a lot. For example, the 2000-year-old debate between "faith vs works." It's true that at an individual level you can't make all the right choices. Maybe faith in grace is actually the physical infrastructure (the multiverse) which was created to ensure somewhere, one of you, made the right choice in every situation. Grace would be a God who chooses to only see those copies of you? So, the way you are here is in someways unavoidable. And yet you have the choice to make the best of it. That it's for some purpose, and that somewhere you aren't this way?

I don't know. Don't be afraid to tell me if that's too far out. It works for me though.

That was pretty far out but also pretty damn amazing. It's always interesting to hear a different perspective that you've never really given much thought to. The only multiverse that I'd ever considered was the DC comics one. Thanks for paying attention.

As far as faith is concerned, have you thought of seeing life as a test?

Truth too late wrote:

batcap wrote:It's not that I don't believe that there's a god. It's more that I just don't see the point in it. If there is a hell I'm more then likely going there so what's the purpose. ...

Does anyone else have any struggles with faith or maybe god and BPD just aren't compatible...

Do you get anything from the story of Job? You wouldn't be able to speak to people suffering mental illness without knowing what it's like?

The whole "would a caring God allow suffering" is interesting. I've' been following an increasingly mainstream theory of quantum mechanics which holds there are infinite parallel universes existing in 10-11 dimensions. Basically, every choice you could have made, every parent you could have had, every possible outcome of your life (including not existing) is happening. Somewhere in the multiverse I'm the President of the US and you're the artist formerly known as Prince. In a different universe earth escaped the meteorite dinosaurs are running through our living room right now.

It sounds crazy. Hugh Everett, the father of the leader of The Eels (an alternative rock band) proposed the theory in the '50s. He was laughed out of academia. Today, it's almost accepted as a universal truth and he's considered to be of the caliber of Einstein and Newton. (I can find a video about it if you're interested).

I think it's interesting because, from a spiritual perspective, it answers the dichotomy between free will and predestination (which must exist if God is omnipotent). As an individual you experience free will. But, at a higher level, there's always a copy of you that chose differently. For every quantum event (choice) a copy of you forks off into another universe where you didn't make that choice. Not merely a copy, but at the atomic level it is you. (The multiverse theory was developed to explain how electrons can exist everywhere at once. Us being made of electrons, does that mean we exist in more than one place at once? That's the theory.).

For some reason that explains things to me. That there had to be a me who is sick. But, at the same time, somewhere there is a me who isn't. It's almost redemptive because wherever you're at, you have the opportunity to make the best of it. For example, I regret I didn't seek help decades ago. When I made those choices, a copy of me forked off and made the choice to get help. Somewhere there is a me who had a more normal life starting at an earlier age. (Likewise, somewhere there's an even more stubborn me who rejected the obvious a year or two ago when I began to face the truth. I'm glad I'm not that guy.).

I don't know. Maybe I smoked too much 420 when I had those ideas. But, it really is scientific and, to me, explains a lot. For example, the 2000-year-old debate between "faith vs works." It's true that at an individual level you can't make all the right choices. Maybe faith in grace is actually the physical infrastructure (the multiverse) which was created to ensure somewhere, one of you, made the right choice in every situation. Grace would be a God who chooses to only see those copies of you? So, the way you are here is in someways unavoidable. And yet you have the choice to make the best of it. That it's for some purpose, and that somewhere you aren't this way?

I don't know. Don't be afraid to tell me if that's too far out. It works for me though.

OMG Truth, you have the exact same belief set as mine regarding the Multiverse, which fits nicely with Deism.

As a Deist, I believe neither in an "God" that is a supernatural being or that Jesus Christ or anyone else was divine. However, I do believe that Jesus is a great philosopher, just as is Socrates, Plato, Buddha and many others. I am a Congregationalist and don't believe in any organized church.

I freely pick and chose what works best for me from the teachings of all religions and I will not allow any other individual to tell me what is right and wrong.

Buddhism is the only formal religion that can be reconciled with Multiverse science, save for that Buddhism if more focused on past and future lives, rather than an infinite amount of concurrent ones as well.

Now, take the Butterfly Effect and combine it with Multiverse science and people have a compelling reason to have faith and do good: your energy and actions in this Universe can effect your being in others. And visa-versa.

Thus, "rewards" of faith and good works are also in this life, not just future ones. Problems are caused by your actions (or your parallel's actions) in this life, not just past ones.

We will always be alive somewhere and thus have eternal life. We do not die and go to heaven for eternal happiness.

We inherently possess the eternal -- we need to eternally work on happiness.

Tahawus wrote:
OMG Truth, you have the exact same belief set as mine regarding the Multiverse, which fits nicely with Deism.

As a Deist, I believe neither in an "God" that is a supernatural being or that Jesus Christ or anyone else was divine. However, I do believe that Jesus is a great philosopher, just as is Socrates, Plato, Buddha and many others. I am a Congregationalist and don't believe in any organized church.

I freely pick and chose what works best for me from the teachings of all religions and I will not allow any other individual to tell me what is right and wrong.

Buddhism is the only formal religion that can be reconciled with Multiverse science, save for that Buddhism if more focused on past and future lives, rather than an infinite amount of concurrent ones as well.

Now, take the Butterfly Effect and combine it with Multiverse science and people have a compelling reason to have faith and do good: your energy and actions in this Universe can effect your being in others. And visa-versa.

Thus, "rewards" of faith and good works are also in this life, not just future ones. Problems are caused by your actions (or your parallel's actions) in this life, not just past ones.

We will always be alive somewhere and thus have eternal life. We do not die and go to heaven for eternal happiness.

We inherently possess the eternal -- we need to eternally work on happiness.

I don't want to hijack the thread, but I disagree that only Buddhism matches the multiverse theory. Dig and you'll realize that all religions do.

Regarding the eternal, it's another story, which is, to my senses more complicated than that (when taking into account space and time theory).

ADHD-HP wrote:

Tahawus wrote:
OMG Truth, you have the exact same belief set as mine regarding the Multiverse, which fits nicely with Deism.

As a Deist, I believe neither in an "God" that is a supernatural being or that Jesus Christ or anyone else was divine. However, I do believe that Jesus is a great philosopher, just as is Socrates, Plato, Buddha and many others. I am a Congregationalist and don't believe in any organized church.

I freely pick and chose what works best for me from the teachings of all religions and I will not allow any other individual to tell me what is right and wrong.

Buddhism is the only formal religion that can be reconciled with Multiverse science, save for that Buddhism if more focused on past and future lives, rather than an infinite amount of concurrent ones as well.

Now, take the Butterfly Effect and combine it with Multiverse science and people have a compelling reason to have faith and do good: your energy and actions in this Universe can effect your being in others. And visa-versa.

Thus, "rewards" of faith and good works are also in this life, not just future ones. Problems are caused by your actions (or your parallel's actions) in this life, not just past ones.

We will always be alive somewhere and thus have eternal life. We do not die and go to heaven for eternal happiness.

We inherently possess the eternal -- we need to eternally work on happiness.

I don't want to hijack the thread, but I disagree that only Buddhism matches the multiverse theory. Dig and you'll realize that all religions do.

Regarding the eternal, it's another story, which is, to my senses more complicated than that (when taking into account space and time theory).

I was going to say Buddhism and Hinduism but I do see that Islam and Kabbalah (and other minor sects) also do...

Set aside modern sects, all the traditional religions and mythologies are interconnected.

Regarding eternity, as far as I am concerned there are two types of eternities:

a) The Originator of all who had never been originated
b) The originated who depend on the Originator

batcap wrote:That was pretty far out but also pretty damn amazing. ... The only multiverse that I'd ever considered was the DC comics one.

Here's the BBC documentary I mentioned. This video is touching because it's not just about science. It documents the son getting to know a father who was distant and unavailable. He goes on this journey to understand his father's discovery (which is considered to be huge today) and comes to relate to the pain the father must have felt after his theory was laughed out of academia:


Direct link: Parallel Worlds, Parallel Lives

As further context: He's always acknowledged that his music reflects the emotional scars from his childhood. He'd probably fit right into these forums. Example songs:

• Bus-stop Boxer
• Friendly Ghost
• From Which I Came, Magic World
• Novacaine For The Soul
• Mr. E's Beautiful Blues

Tahawus wrote:OMG Truth, you have the exact same belief set as mine regarding the Multiverse, which fits nicely with Deism.

What I like about it, tying back into both faith and why a God would allow suffering: Parallel universes have to exist in a minimum of 10 or 11 dimensions of space and time. To grasp how significant that is, consider what a hypothetical 2-dimensional "person" would hear if you tried to explain what you experience in a 3-dimensional world. You could talk to him for a *year* and all he'd hear is: "a line can bend" (without really understanding what "bend" means.). He's incapable of comprehending anything, even what you take for granted every moment of your life just 1 dimension above his.

Imagine what it would be like to exist in 7 or 8 dimensions above ours. This illustrates our position within the scheme of things. Science almost universally accepts that realm of dimensions exists. Such a realm must enable God-like capabilities (omniscience, omnipresence). It doesn't take faith to believe that. And, if an intelligent being/power exists within that realm we could never possibly imagine its prerogatives, our place in the scheme of things. (Job's bewilderment.).

PS: There's a growing scientific theory that the universe is a computer, a simulation. That quantum particles are "information," our consciousness is just "data" processing on a cosmic computer. Not metaphorically. They make a point that they mean this literally. Again, illustrating our temporal place within a physical world, and perhaps spiritual too. Two videos about that if you want to see it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ATWa2AEvIY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANKSvS5wngY