Is DBT effective and not a cult? *May Trigger*

@AD, looks like I was educated well enough about CBT/DBT, and you were the one needing to be educated on asian religions. But CN did that already, thanks man. /azzholeface hehehehe

But yeah, it's A LOT like asian religions. In fact, I think the religions might be more detailed and effective than CBT/DBT, with more exercises and beliefs. And usually some nicer people to socialize with. lol

@ CN, we need to drink a few beers together, and decide the fate of psychotherapy, sometime. And maybe we could hunt psychoanalysts like Blade hunts vampires.

@ wendy, this post was a criticism towards DBT... It would be helpful for the BPD to have the discussion if anything.


Now some credentials: I'm a pilates and yoga practioner. I've studied religions quite extensively, because I love history and also for the sole and single purpose to bash religious people in real life and in social networks (back when that was cool). I actually ended up seeing how religion is actually useful and necessary and effective for the well being in many people's lives.

However, I really get annoyed when I see another form of religious thinking (basically without giving shapes and identities to it's "gods") being sold as medical treatment when people seek it in circumstances where they might be literally in the worst place physically, emotionally and financially in their lives... Or suffering from a mental illness... which, frankly, can be more devastating then many physical illnesses. I honestly rather lose sight, hearing or my ability to walk then become severe bipolar, BPD, schizophrenic or depressed...

A lot of religious people actually become religious in those very same circumstances, and a preacher, much like a psychotherapists, takes their money in exchange for acceptance, guidance and (quite often empty) promises of a better life. Even if improvement never happens, blind faith keeps the person there. i find this quite unethical. Diabolical, really. People need REAL improvement and treatment for REAL mental illnesses. And to be not recognized properly but also RESPECTED for it.

So yeah, I'm probably going to dedicate a significant portion of my life to bash bad psych""" treatments. Eliminating the modus operandi of religion should be a must on anyone's agenda. This is 2014. We rely on thorough scientific studies to decide wether potato chips can have more salt. Why not to ensure people with psych""" problems are being taken care of effectively and respectfully?

twistednerve wrote:@AD, looks like I was educated well enough about CBT/DBT, and you were the one needing to be educated on asian religions. But CN did that already, thanks man. /azzholeface hehehehe

Were you though? It seems like you didn't actually know what you were talking about.

twistednerve wrote:Now some credentials: I'm a pilates and yoga practioner.

I would have just stuck with saying yoga. Pilates was developed in the 20th century and has little to do with spirituality.

twistednerve wrote:However, I really get annoyed when I see another form of religious thinking (basically without giving shapes and identities to it's "gods") being sold as medical treatment

Um. You do know that Yoga historically comes from Vedic texts and is a central part of Ayurvedic medicine, right? It's also often sold more as an exercise plan than as a spiritual practice currently. Hence, you've bought into a religious practice sold as medical treatment.

twistednerve wrote:A lot of religious people actually become religious in those very same circumstances, and a preacher, much like a psychotherapists, takes their money in exchange for acceptance, guidance and (quite often empty) promises of a better life. Even if improvement never happens, blind faith keeps the person there. i find this quite unethical. Diabolical, really. People need REAL improvement and treatment for REAL mental illnesses. And to be not recognized properly but also RESPECTED for it.

This is the point of religion- to give people blind hope and faith based on the stories others tell them and they tell themselves. This is actually the crux of the usefulness of religion. As you should know, mind and body are connected. The mental comfort and community that religion brings has positive health benefits, both mental and physical. You just have to be stupid enough to believe it.

twistednerve wrote:So yeah, I'm probably going to dedicate a significant portion of my life to bash bad psych""" treatments. Eliminating the modus operandi of religion should be a must on anyone's agenda. This is 2014. We rely on thorough scientific studies to decide wether potato chips can have more salt. Why not to ensure people with psych""" problems are being taken care of effectively and respectfully?

Right. So you're going to bash the one scientifically tested therapy for BPD people? This is a set system with goals and lessons and a methodology. Most therapy practice is fairly random with no efficacy testing as it's just based on what the person decides to discuss and what the therapist comes up with as their personal interpretation. Yeah, mental health needs more study and people should care more about the quality of care, but your post really isn't the right way of advocating for that.

Also, sorry I spell your name wrong. I must be mis-remembering it.

twistednerve wrote:@ wendy, this post was a criticism towards DBT... It would be helpful for the BPD to have the discussion if anything.

You should keep to the subject, then, and not stray.
No topic for the sake of conversation, but in order to compare who has the biggest.

twistednerve wrote:Why not to ensure people with psych""" problems are being taken care of effectively and respectfully?

Maybe they are trying to focus on the cause rather than the outcome.
Potato chips are easier to analyze than human mind, but something can be deduced which results in mental health problems.
Money wisely? spent.

What makes something scientific is not the content, but whether it is testable.
It seems to me that this technique is clear enough that it is testable.
Now, whether it actually works is another matter, and I don't know.
But the first thing is to have a workable theory, and from that standpoint, it seems to be the only real therapy out there. At this point, all you need is study it, and there is no way you can predict the outcome that would not be a bias. It seems that there was some positive studies on it. I don't know if they are correct, but it shows at least that it can be studied.
Anyway, that is my opinion.
Even if it ends up being fake, at least it is a start for true therapy.

I did DBT on a one-to-one level - not group therapy. It didn't drain my pockets as I was lucky enough to go to a therapist who provided counseling for issues of sexuality and DBT for borderlines at a very reduced rate as those are his passions. I still see him for talk therapy for a reduced rate weekly. DBT taught me coping skills I'd never had before. Instead of cutting, purging, screaming, I work through my emotions. The distress tolerance skills I've learned, practiced, and utilized have saved me a lot of grief. What works, works.

I wouldn't be here if it weren't for my therapist and the DBT skills he helped to teach me - I would have long offed myself during a blind rage. I now have a very healthy relationship with my boyfriend and have a few close friends. I don't SI or purge anymore, I don't use sex when I feel empty. DBT can be wonderful if it is what works for you. Heck, on that note, I don't think I could have a female therapist because I'd "compete" with her, but that doesn't mean female therapists are wholly bad - just not for me.

ofc it's not a cult
it's reprogramming
i love marchal arts
you train a reaction to an attack millions of times
and when that attack is executes on you you will do the counter you trained
it will be a refex
musclememory

it can be a way to break the circle
but it can never be the only form of therapy imho
better actions will result in an improvement
i kinda know how it works but i would love to see it in action and actual training

Acupuncture is known to be a fraud and cannot be sold as medical treatment.

akshully snookums, yes you are the mostest adorable of the rabble rousers...it's not.
There are scientific studies proving it;s effectiveness. and I will attest to it as n=1 , but that is me and for another it will not have effect. I am the last person to 'believe' in anything without giving it a a shot myself. So, it's not a question of belief, but of what works and not more for me.

And usually some nicer people to socialize with. lol

WRT asian religions...very true IME. My work has me surrounded on a daily basis steeped with some very strict practitioners...it's very helpful if not soothing. As far as personal beliefs go....nyaaaaah....it's a better more logical flow than vast majority of faith based malarkey.

ofc Acupuncture works
perhaps not like you think it does
but at least there's a placebo effect
and the side effects are minor (loss of money)

if you take pills they will have an effect is it the effect you want that i don't know
are the side effects wurth it
that something you have to deside

bravo...so you are going to tell me what was effective pain relief? You are me? *pfft*

And , there are many studies that are proving the efficacy of Acupuncture , unfortunately the studies are rather fluffy... but several were not, and they are based on current knowledge of the cascade effect due to the puncturing of the skin and insertion points.

So...just because you claim it is placebo for, doesn't make it so...

are the side effects wurth it

No...they weren't. And TCM is based on on treating the cause not the symptoms...

Where as DBT, which you are an endless flop at, is using your Brain. But....
Some can simply plug into primal drives and bypass DBT as it is the other requires it.

AmorousDestruction wrote:CBT is not as effective for PwBPD because it doesn't take into account the concept of dialectics. From what I've heard, it can feel really invalidating. DBT is predicated on the idea that you can feel one way, rationally know another way, and act with both of those things in mind.

I have done quite a bit of CBT, and it's true what you say. There was a lot of "stop doing that" or "stop feeling like that" being thrown about when I was just trying to understand why I wanted to do certain things or why I felt certain ways in the first place.