Am I avoidant, schizoid, or just a bit pathetic?

I think this will inevitably have to be sort of long... (an alternative subject title would be 'Mememememememe!') for obvious reasons...

Not sure where to start... I am a very odd person. My latest idea about it is to relate it to Baudrillard's theory of precession, but, rather than the map taking the place of the land, the map is used to obscure the land. It seems I act out a caricature of myself, so that no one will suspect that it is very close to what actually lies beneath. The Baudrillard reference is probably quite pointless here, though perhaps a good indication of my rather skewed mode of reference (reading too much...). I think the point I want to make, which does seem a good starting point, is that everything is so muddled, overlapping, causally indeterminate, and so on, when I try to pin it down. If a person is made of layers, like an onion (who was it used that metaphor?), I can never seem to determine the order of the layers, or even if such layers exist, and are the outer layers there as a disguise or an aspect (even if they are a sort of disguise, the shape that disguise takes is still a function of those inner layers). Yes, everything is very confused. And I like that, even though it is not the most effective way of leading your life. But it is also why I need some kind of second opinion: I am so bloody self-enveloped, introspective, self-centred, but I am not sure if this is to the extent that have lost perspective on things.

As long as I can remember I have felt a bit of an outsider. Especially as a teenager - but then again that is perfectly normal. I read this novel where the discrepancy between inner and outer self was central, and after that I assumed that everyone else did actually feel like I did - like strangers in a strange land - but that they, like I, were very good at hiding it. Self-estrangement and repulsion at self-pity being two of my main driving forces, I started to force myself into new situations and making new friends. I suppose it has been a partial success, but lately I have once again started to suspect there might actually be something ‘wrong’ with me. Yes, I have made new friends, but I have still never been in a relationship, and I still do not feel actual intimacy with anyone. Not even my family. The ‘problem’ is, however, that I think I do want to be able to connect with people. I wonder if it is just social conditioning that makes me think the only way to be happy or fulfilled is to be in a relationship, but then again, giving up on it might just be taking the easy way out, or perhaps it is not so much taking the easy way out as avoiding a life of trying to achieve something I neither want nor can achieve. I really don’t know if I have any major issues with intimacy or not. I don’t quite understand the concept, which might in itself be the problem: either my criteria of what counts as intimacy are too high, and I do experience what other people refer to as intimacy and I’m asking for some kind of spiritual holistic out-of-body-experience. Or I am actually unsuccessful in achieving it. I suppose there are some indications in this direction: others seem to put much more energy into relationships than I do: it always surprises me when people I thought were in approximately the same social situation as I receive a text, and I kept being astonished when I came back to school after the summer to find that my friends had been seeing each other, and when the person I considered my best friend for three years kept referring to this other person I never met as ‘her best friend.’ It is not really that I am unpopular. Well, I tend to think I am, but every now and then someone makes a (very convincing) point of how much they like being with me or how funny I am. But still, people quite rarely actually ask me to do things with them. It must be something about the way I behave, but I really cannot see it myself, which is odd, because once you start looking for these things you do tend to start noticing things. Apparently, for the first term or so, the others on my course had me down as aloof, and maybe I do seem distant and uninterested, and I never show how hurt I am when my friends go to the cinema, or have a coffee together, or whatever, without even asking me. Not that I would necessarily accept, but just the idea. It seems I like people in principle, but find it hard to put into practice, but then again I don’t know to what extent I want to put it into practice. I’m quite content on my own, and I never feel as close to others as when quiet among strangers. I also quite enjoy being with people I feel don’t understand me one bit (generally extroverted ‘simple’ people) because I don’t have to put any effort into confusing them as to what I really feel, whereas with people I suspect are more like me I feel threatened by the idea that someone might see beyond my ‘mask’.

I have suspected that I might be avoidant, but it does not seem to fit particularly, as I don't tend to feel anything worse than discomfort or detachment in social situations. Then a week or so ago I came across the concept of schizoid and schizotypal personality disorder – I do not understand how I have not found it earlier – and all the ‘symptoms’ fitted a little too well, though mostly I suppose they were sort of 'mild' and I am evidently not completely asocial. Still, I can’t get away from the suspicion that this is yet another outlet for my self-centredness, and that I have created these symptoms in myself as part of my project of self-estrangement, trying to convince myself that I am an outsider. Then again, all the symptoms were things I have observed in myself before ever reading about the concept, and the very fact that I strive towards estrangement must surely in itself be part of it: I’m quite sure that’s not a normal thing to do; people do strive towards community rather than away from it, right? It was actually a big relief finding this: it is the best indication yet that I’m not just being ridiculous. Then again, I don't suppose I am a particularly severe case of anything: I function okay, most of the time, although I keep having the feeling that everything is just a bit easier for everyone else, but I am thankful that I seem to have a rather high default level of happiness which means I don't tend to be particularly troubled by these things. At least not on good days. Then again, it is quite hard work to achieve the kind of social interaction where I see it as a positive thing, and, who knows, I might actually enjoy an intimate relationship if I managed to establish it.

Well, there I go. I’m really not sure what I want to get out of posting this. I tend to be equally disturbed by people agreeing and disagreeing with me, and every time I try to reach out and hint to people what I feel, I always feel like I lose something, be it dignity or integrity or I don’t know. But at least this is very very anonymous (or I would never ever post it). Well, anyway, lately I have considered maybe it would be worth it asking for help. The student union offers free counselling, but I am not sure it would be worth the (rather gargantuan) effort to actually approach them, let alone follow through with sessions. I feel nauseous just thinking about it. But if anyone actually bothers to read all this (I obviously find it hugely fascinating myself, with all my self-obsession), and they think they think they could contribute with something useful, I would appreciate it greatly.

I can't concentrate enough to read your whole post right now, but the title alone suggests you're not schizoid.

Hope you find your answers here. Welcome to the forums.

Hmmm.. thanks....

After looking around here a bit more, I feel I recognise myself a bit too much in what people are talking about to convince myself I'm perfectly normal. In fact, I don't know how I've been able to convince myself of this for so long - only recently has the thought struck me that not only have I ever met anyone to whom I connected on a deeper level, but neither have I met anyone as exhibitionally eccentric.

And coming across the thread about the AvPD and HPD, I'm starting to suspect very much that this is more accurate than me being schizotypal.

But I might very well change my mind before tomorrow morning. And the histrionical idea might presently prevail by virtue of being more recent. Though that, in turn, speaks in favour of it, I think.

Ah everything!

Yep. As I thought. Too long. Who the deuce would bother reading anything that long? Well, I suppose it has great literary qualities

Well, I'll just make it into another conversation with myself... *fades away in a cloud of self-pity*...

Hi Renderer. You say that you can function okay and that you usually maintain a high level of happiness, so it sound unlikely that you have a personality disorder at all. It's possible that you are high on the schizoid scale with avoidant tendencies and as for being pathetic, that's just a matter of opinion and perspective. It could be that you're just an introverted loner who has different social needs than the extrovert majority. You don't need to have a disorder for life to suck though.

I would highly recommend going to see counseling especially if you can get it free from school! I've done the same and found it really interesting. They never really "helped" me feel better about life but they at least allowed me to identify maladaptive behaviour and be aware of what situations distress me. You can't get a real diagnosis unless you see a psychiatrist after being referred by a GP (depending which country you are in), and unless you find a really good doctor, they will probably just say "take these pills and stop being such a weirdo". Check out if your student union offers in insurance and if you'd be covered to see a psychiatrist.

Why do you find it important to attach a label to your psyche? By the level of writing in your post, you sound highly intelligent which is enough to make you feel different from the rest. I hope that was useful to you.

Thanks!

I agree completely about labels, really. If you do function, you really don't need one. Maybe I do just have a very unusual personality, and the idea that that would automatically mean I have a disorder rather disgusts me.

(sorry... a bit long again...)

The thing is that I'm very good at convincing myself that I'm not so bad, and I feel disgusted by my own self-pity when others have 'actual problems'. But I really don't see me ever being in a relationship (certainly not a functional one) or having a job involving actually doing things (my plan is to just stick around uni and hope they'll lock me away in a cupboard with some books and a typewriter). And apparently family and sex are things that make people happy, so it does feel like I might be missing out.

In my present context I do function fine though. I don't pick up the phone, but people don't call me, so that is not a major problem. I often miss deadlines and appointments, from just forgetting them, and that upsets me quite a lot, but it tends to work out in the end. And I tend to be disturbed for days before things like seeing friends and appointments. And single comments can ruin whole days (never things like intentional insults: the person making them would have no idea). And never knowing what my general view on things will be from day to day (I can have decided to do something the day before, then wake up the next morning and not understand how I could ever have believed that to be a reasonable thing to do). But I don't know if these things interfere majorly. I just tend to have no idea what's going on and not get very much done. So: perfect academic. Maybe I'm just meant to be an academic.

And at the moment I'm a bit worried about my mother. Having moved away, I find it very hard to go back home, and I'm worried that it's going to get worse, and I won't manage to do it. And I've always kept up a good show for my family that I'm fine (though my mother is beginning to drop hints about children, so in another five years or so it might not hold any more). I don't think I could stand to disappoint her.

If this follows the normal pattern, after a couple of days I'll have concluded that I was probably wrong, and there is nothing in particular the matter with me, and I was silly to believe so. I'm not sure it will though. This is the first place where I feel I understand what people are talking about and I feel a sort of acceptance. I was really very pleased when I found descriptions that just fitted. I'm not quite sure why, as I normally shun categorisations. Finally there is some sort of confirmation to put my self-doubt at rest. I've always felt... different... not in any specifiable way, just that I was not quite like other people. I really don't know what the point of putting a label on it would be: it is rather paradoxical that I would require inclusion in order to affirm my exclusion.

Well, in any case I think I'll stay here. At least until it becomes a burden, which is probably only a couple of days. But it is interesting to get some outside response: normally I just converse with myself. And I do love talking about myself, as you might have gathered...

-- Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:33 pm --

Maybe the title should just be 'an academic' instead of 'a bit pathetic'

Renderer wrote:So: perfect academic. Maybe I'm just meant to be an academic.

I've thought of this too... somehow I'm able to keep up a decent GPA while skipping more than half of my classes. I'm just special I guess

Renderer wrote:If this follows the normal pattern, after a couple of days I'll have concluded that I was probably wrong, and there is nothing in particular the matter with me, and I was silly to believe so. I'm not sure it will though. This is the first place where I feel I understand what people are talking about and I feel a sort of acceptance.

That's exactly the problem with labels: if you don't fit the definition of any major disorder, you must be perfectly alright. You should be able to just toughen up and stop sulking. Think of all the poor little children who have nothing to eat and here you are complaining that no body understands you blah blah (that was supposed to be said with a sarcastic voice). Being unhappy with life isn't a disease nor is being different. I feel I'm in that situation right now. I do well in school because it's easy for me, and work because I need to. My job makes me cry or almost cry pretty much everyday. I don't really have any friends. I wonder why I'm even still alive constantly.

I think conditions like AVP or SPD are considered minor because people with it tend to "act in" instead of "acting out" like the cluster Bs. Their suffering affects only them and their closest relationships. What do you do if you feel bad enough that you don't enjoy life, but not bad enough for anyone to care?

I think being diagnosed with an anxiety disorder just made my self esteem worse and didn't help me much. Suddenly I have a perfectly good way to justify to myself not participating in things and staying away from people. So I'd try to avoid any labeling for as long as you can.

Hehe not sure if this post completely made sense.

Still, I can’t get away from the suspicion that this is yet another outlet for my self-centredness, and that I have created these symptoms in myself as part of my project of self-estrangement, trying to convince myself that I am an outsider.

Wow, these words... Did you stole them from me ?
This is how my pursuit of self diagnosis started. Right now, after 1 year I still am in this state... call it Schizoid personality disorder, AVPD, depression or whatever.
Well at beginning I was avoidant, now I don't know if I am depressed or it's some form of SPD, since my symptoms are depression-like but without sadness. Now I have only one friend, which I don't communicate much to.


Damn, I am starting to talk too much about myself.

Asaboy wrote:I think being diagnosed with an anxiety disorder just made my self esteem worse and didn't help me much. Suddenly I have a perfectly good way to justify to myself not participating in things and staying away from people. So I'd try to avoid any labeling for as long as you can.

Yeah, I do actually agree with that. And I remember when my brother got his diagnosis and it was just like that that gave him the right to let go, and live up to the criteria he didn't even display before.

And should I actually go and talk to someone (which I sometimes think I will, but would never actually do) and they said I had this or that, I think I would actually be sort of offended. And even if I could, I'm not sure I would like to change anything - this is just who I am. Unless I got worse somehow I guess.

But at the moment I identify quite a lot with the schizotypals, and a bit with the avoidants, in a lovely cocktail, and what would someone else know about that anyway? And moping around here, with people who seem to understand me, is a good way to go about it, at the moment.

viscereal wrote:

Still, I can’t get away from the suspicion that this is yet another outlet for my self-centredness, and that I have created these symptoms in myself as part of my project of self-estrangement, trying to convince myself that I am an outsider.

Wow, these words... Did you stole them from me ?

I'm actually getting a bit teary-eyed (is happening quite frequently lately... ) People who actually understand! If this were a real life situation I would be annoyed and tell you to stop being so nice (tends to happen on the rare occasions someone actually takes interest in me despite me trying to shove them off...)

viscereal wrote:Damn, I am starting to talk too much about myself.

That's fine as long as you're saying interesting things, which you are

I will agree with others that your problems don't seem severe enough to warrant a diagnosis of a personality disorder, or even SAD, to be honest, but that doesn't make you anymore pathetic; indeed, you're less pathetic than the lot of us here.