Selfdeserting avoidants and alcohol

I have had a bad habit for years of using alcohol once or twice a week to escape reality. Earlier this year I became aware of the term self deserting avoidant and I nearly stopped breathing when I read it. I am 100% sure that this is what I have. I am in no doubt at all.I was only shocked that there was a name for it. This question is only for the self deserting avoidants(with respect). Have you used substances in the past to facilitate your escape into a fantasy world? Did you find it hard to stop? I stopped drinking as soon as I realised what was behind it. That was about 3 months ago. I was shocked when I realised what the underlying cause of my alcohol intake was although I realise now it was a good thing and an enormous breakthrough for me. I am glad that I have stopped drinking but I miss my escape. It was my prop for a decade and the going feels hard without it. Its not the alcohol itself that I crave, more the retreat into fantasy that is characteristic of our type of AVPD. Im only starting to realise how hard this AVPD is. I struggle to stay present. I zone out continually into my fantasy or maladaptive daydreaming patterns. How much of a battle is it for you selfdesertings to stay out of your fantasy world? (I refer to the self deserting subtype as described in the link below)

http://www.4degreez.com/disorder/forum/ ... hread.html

I can somewhat relate to topic . I would always drink something before i would go out just to get my self confidence up because you never know when might need it plus it also relax me when I'm stress(however been replace by junk food).For maladaptive daydreaming patterns i didn't know there was a word that for the daydreams i have. But I'm glad i have them for a lot because when i daydream i always feel better no matter what's the situation is. . As for the shock of finding out about the subtypes of avoidants my heart down too and my eyes was glued to the screen like i won a million dollars(which will never happen unless its a scam)

However for me i come across as more a HYPERSENSITIVE AVOIDANT and CONFLICTED AVOIDANT because of my past and present state right now.

Hey Redhorse,

First, congratulations on your three months of sobriety!
That's awesome .
Awareness is definitely the first step towards progress. I think simply being aware of our thought patterns makes a considerable difference.
I can relate to the escapism. I was prescribed klonopin last year for anxiety and well...I ended up taking it all the time, just to stay numb and to keep the painful thoughts at bay, let "reality" slip away.
I still take them occasionally, but I'm doing much better than I was.

Well wishes,

Evol

I can definitely relate to the description of a self-deserting avoidant. Using alcohol and other drugs (cannabis, psychedelics and disassociatives), but also spending days immersed in roleplaying games, watching all seasons of tvshows in short order, excessive daydreaming and so on. I do it all. My own existence is too painful so I'd rather forget it. It's a conscious choice to reduce consciousness of self.

I put worries and memories out of my mind, otherwise I will just agonize over them. It is a short term fix since my problems are not resolved at all, but I rather deal with that constant nagging feeling of guilt, irresponsibility and shame, which I can suppress to bearable levels, then to open myself up to my fears and anxieties. I like myself and existence in general when I am alone, but I am just disgusted by myself and the world when I am interacting with others. The human social world, with its meaningless games and image posturing, I hate it. Nobody is to blame though, it is who we evolved to be.

I can't say that knowing there is a name for it does me any good. I like simplicity and I don't think it is possible to ever fully capture a persons problems in such a description. Just 'avoidant' will do for me. I also think that a person may switch between those 4 types too easily. In my opinion the self-deserting type is reached when you have a good understanding of yourself and your problems, stop blaming the world or yourself and just give up. Knowledge doesn't help much other than to relieve some guilt.

My avie friend who did try drugs did find it fun to have some drinks in social settings. He did not much like the side effects, however, so never really got into it. He tried many other drugs, but only found them fun as a means to be social. Cocaine, in particular, made him super horny so would never be an "alone" drug.

Reynaert wrote: In my opinion the self-deserting type is reached when you have a good understanding of yourself and your problems, stop blaming the world or yourself and just give up.

I can really relate to some of what has been said here. The watching of tv series in one go etc rings true. There is one thing I really disagree with though and that is the above quote. Self deserting avoidants have a life long illness so I dont believe that it is only something you develop when you give up. I can remember my early childhood and my obsessive need to bury myself in books. My reading age was miles ahead of my class and everyone was really pleased about this. People didnt have the knowledge they do now to ask why? What is the cause of this obsessive reading? I can remember at 10 years of age running out of books and raiding my Dads supply of books. I found a crime book and gave myself nightmares for months because the material was too adult for me but I had to have a book-just HAD TO.I can remember the box of breakfast cereals. I was always happy to give my brother the free toy as long as I could read the back of the box when I was eating. I had to read read read or I panicked although I never understood why. In junior after- school club we were given one library book a week. Every Monday we had to line up and exchange it. My teacher got so fed up with me wanting to change it 2 or 3 times a week that he gave me full access to the library and I could go in myself and change it when I wanted. I was the only child in the club with this arrangement.At the time it was seen as proof that I was really smart. I believe that it was the early manifestations of self deserting avoidance showing.It was an unhealthy need to lose myself in any shape or form. We do as the title says.We desert ourselves through ANY MEDIUM WE CAN GET OUR HANDS ON.
In Senior school the reports and parents meetings always said the same thing. Smart but daydreams excessively.Even then I was famous for zoning out.People commented on it so much that I just became used to it. It was like my height or surname or hair colour.It was just who I was and I nor the adults round me had ever heard of this disorder. In college I used to spend hours in the gardens or my room instead of attending class. Our attendance was not monitored in those days and I drifted in my own universe until exam time and then studied around the clock to scrape a pass. I was never mentally present in my life.Never.

I then started work and thats where the cracks finally started to show. I was grossly immature and under equipped to deal with the realities of a work place.I was denied my usual self deserting methods of maladaptive daydreaming/reading/excessive tv etc and I had to remain present. The mental strain was terrible and I used to come home ill with stress and strain. Then came alcohol. I now believe that I was an lifelong addict just waiting for my drug of choice to come along and I am so incredibly lucky that I was able to give it up as easily as I did. Its a lifelong thing.
Sometimes when I hear people say well whats the difference between social phobia and avpd my instinct is to say...where do I start? I also don't think that people talk enough about the different subtypes.Take hypersensitive for example. I cant relate to a word of that. I don't have a paranoid bone in my body.My ENTIRE life fell into place and made sense when I finally got my hands on the definition of a self deserting avoidant. I literally stopped breathing when I read it. I only wish I had heard of it when I was young. It would have been lot easier to fight when I was in my teens or twenties. So no, self deserting is not something that just happens when you give up. Its with you from when you are a tiny child.I have improved a lot but every hour of every day is a battle to remain present and not head off into daydreaming or fantasy. I battle in work,in home, in conversations. I wont drive a car despite being fully qualified and having access to one because its not safe because of my zoning out.Thats how extreme in can be for some people.The social phobia part is really bad too but its the easiest part of it. Someone else said that on this forum before and I could not agree more. I would sell my soul "just" to have social phobia and knowing how unpleasant it is I don't say that lightly.I honestly believe that only a true self deserting avoidant can understand the realities of the condition. I think there is a an awful lot of confusion between social anxiety and avpd.

To anyone who is trying to decide where they fit in,read the definition really carefully. This quote is really important in my opinion.

"More and more, they cannot tolerate being themselves and seek
to completely withdraw from their own conscious awareness, an existential abnegation
of selfhood. Some become increasingly neglectful psychologically and physically, even
to the point of neglecting basic hygiene. "

Thats what is is. A lifelong attempt during every waking hour to withdraw from your own conscious awareness even throughout mealtimes,sex,conversations etc.I have escaped being knocked down as a pedestrian many times because I cannot remain aware. You cant switch it on or off or control it.I only wish.....Oh and ps the huge social phobia/anxiety element of the condition isn't much fun either but thats a whole new post.

Here are the 4 types for anyone who has not read them.

http://www.4degreez.com/disorder/forum/ ... hread.html

Redhorse, you never quite answered the question of why you think you lost yourself in reading or daydreaming so easily in the first place. Is doing that not giving up on your own life itself? Because fiction (either in books or in your own fantasies) is more interesting than anything in actual life? Or do you think that giving up necessarily implies a conscious (one time) decision, rather than something that develops in time?

Are you still interesting in developing your own life in terms of starting a family, having a career, hobbies that involve other people (sports) etc. Or do you see taking care of your real physical life just as something to be able to continue living, with no inherit reward of its own? Do you get enough satisfaction from things other than false dreams (fiction/fantasies/drugs) to make life worth it?

(I am not trying to prove a point or something, but I do think there is something worth discussing here and I am interesting in your opinion. And I still don't think splitting avpd into these 4 groups makes much sense, because they are all avoiding and I think the root cause is likely to be the same. Personally, I am somewhere in between self-deserting and hypersensitive type, I don't think I exactly fit in either of them.)

It's funny that you should mention you were easily able to give up on alcohol. I've noticed that while I am prone to substance abuse, quitting (or not doing it for months) has never been hard. Usually I just switch to another avoidant behavior, but that does not have to be another drug. Books are way too expensive by the way to be one of these avoiding habits. I easily go through 400 page (fiction) books within a day. Thankfully there is always the internet, always plenty to read there.

Hi reyneart. Your reply is really interesting and has really got me thinking. I would like to break it down because there is a lot in there.

1 you ask why you think I lost myself in reading or daydreaming in the first place. That Reynaert is the multi million dollar question. Its the whole nature v nurture debate which better minds than mine have tried to reach a conclusion on. You could take several views I suppose. One,that I had an unhappy early childhood(which I did) and that I developed it as a coping strategy. 2 That it is a inherited genetic condition and my childhood happy or otherwise is neither here nor there. 3 A combination of the two. I have a cousin with this as well.(genetics hint???) The whole debate reminds me of the make up advertisement....maybe its maybeline,maybe shes born with it. The whole area is terribly under researched I think.Scientists do not seem to be very interested in us. I found this a few days ago on another forum and I found it interesting. It doesnt specifically mention avpd but its getting close I thought.http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/006474.html I am considering getting the test for it just for my own curiousity.


2 you ask whether giving up implies a conscious one time decision rather than something that develops in time.This is the hardest part of your post to reply to as I am not sure how you are using the phrase "giving up". I can only answer it as I think you may have meant it.

A If you mean giving up as in retreating into my fantasy world I dont know when or why I did it.I either was born like this or it happened it my early pre school years and I have no memory of it.All I know is that by the time I was able to start and evaluate and compare myself to others (7-10 years?) it was there. Like I said its always been like my nose or hair colour for me ie its always been there. There was no sudden incident where I could point at and say There! Thats where it happened! So how can someone give up from childhood? I had never heard of this and I was going through my childhood presuming that I was just a regular child(as were the adults around me)

B I associate giving up as something adults do and no I have never given up in life. I have just learnt to operate around this exhausting condition. I have ticked some of the standard boxes. I went to college, I have a job although the job area has nearly pushed me to the point of breakdown. I kept trying to beat the avpd and put myself into jobs with high people contact. I thought I could force the xxx(what I now know is called avpd) down into a spot where it didn't matter ie train myself out of it almost. Big mistake. I ended up with major depression and eventually had to switch careers.I just implode in those high octane work environments and it wasn't for the lack of trying believe me. I tried for a decade.
I have a long term partner who gives me oodles of personal space and is laid back and accepting of me(hit the jackpot there). I don't do so well on the friends front. I am an mild extroverted avoidant ie I can put on the veneer of smiles and sociability which sometimes attracts people to me,then I bolt. I am guilty of giving people mixed signals although I have only recently become aware of this. Over the years I have had people who tried to take me up on the offer of friendship that they thought that I was offering and of course I panic and try to find my escape route. I know I am not alone in this. I recently came across the term secret schiziod http://www.secretschizoid.com/ and I looked at it long and hard. I rejected it and returned to avpd and in particular to the term extroverted avoidant but some underlying principles are the same(and some aren't).

The one area I have given up on sadly is the area of children. I would have needed ivf to have children and I didnt persue it. I just wouldnt be psychologically fit enough to meet the demands of parenthood. Every day is a struggle to stay present for myself and I reluctantly threw in the towel there so that is one area where I did give up.
I do try to find a reward in life and not just stay alive for life itself. I have bought and fixed up a house and enjoyed that.Since I stopped drinking I have forced myself to be more sociable. I have been terribly guilty of isolating myself with the bottle but since I discovered this condition I have refused to allow myself to live a hermit lifestyle any more. I have rediscovered some fight in me now that I know what the heck it is that I am fighting! I couldnt fight something with no name.I think that this forum is a godsend and I have lurked for ages absolutely fascinated to see some of my behaviours down in print. In some ways it has been upsetting to see my personality and my life reduced to a set of symptoms but really in the long term it has been worth it. I have made more plans in the last 3 months than I have done in the last 3 years.I have a big extended family and I have forced myself to interact and have family days with them. I am not good with people outside of my family circle. You have to maintain a friendship with them in a way that I cant manage. With family its different. We ring each other when it suits and don't when it suits. Its only now that I am realising how lucky I am to have such a big family. They will tolerate the push/pull element inside me when it comes to socialising. Other people wouldnt and I understand that. People do not like being picked up and dropped at someones elses whim but I have that mixed longing for contact and escape that all avpds do. On the outside and for people who do not understand the condition it can just look like you are using people when it suits you.

You said that you can give up substances eg alcohol easily because you can just switch to another avoidant behaviour. I think that you are a very clever person and have hit the nail on the head for self deserting avoidants who try to give up something addictive!!! We have a rich supply of escape routes. I actually laughed when I read that. That is how I gave it up. As I said reading about self deserting avpd hit me like a thunderbolt. It took me weeks to replay my life in the context of my newly found diagnosis. I spent ages going aha! and so thats why! and more ahas! etc. I then came to the logical conclusion well you did avpd for 25+ plus years without alcohol.(I just used books ,daydreaming etc) so you can just go back and do it again) and I did.

You say you can read books at the speed of light. Welcome to your twin! Yes I could not afford to keep myself in books either. Thank God I live close to a second hand bookshop.

You dont think we should emphasise the differences in the four subtypes of avpd.hmmm. Ok I will moderate my earlier remarks. I am pure self deserting and cannot relate to the other types but I can accept that other people have a blend. I hope you stay around. I think you are interesting.

You might like this quotation "When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left I buy food and clothes" - Erasmus

I wonder if old Erasmus would have posted here if he was alive today?