AvPD and socially awkward people

What is the difference between having AvPD and being just socially awkward person without any PD? Are people with social anxiety or general anxiety disorder socially awkard too? To me, it seems that people with SA and GAD are not socially awkward at all. But there are people with low self-esteem and socially awkward, but they do not have any personality disorder. Did you also observe these differences? How can you explain them?

Well this is just my guess but...

- Being socially awkward would imply that the person is uncomfortable in some way in public. This could be due to a general lack of social skills, some neurological disorder like Aspergers, or some type of anxiety. Based on vids I've seen on YouTube of how "social anxiety makes them act" it does seem like they would be fairly awkward in social situations, although this isn't the case for every social phobic. For GAD, I don't think they would be that awkward, but rather 'troubled' and 'restless', they would probably fit in fine but would always have their worries on their mind.

- I do feel awkward in public personally. I've been told I seem awkward before (not in a mean way though), but I've noticed my awkwardness is directly related to my social anxiety, whenI'm anxious I'm all stiff, physically defensive (body language-wise) and robotic but when I'm with friends who'm I'm comfortable with, away from everyone else, all my actions flow easily and naturally.

- With AvPD'ers, I believe it's due to the interpersonal rejection sensitivity/general belief people won't like us, in which case we 'shy away' from others. Awkwardness is just a perception really, if there's a group of people talking and an someone with AvPD is sitting away from everyone and not interacting with them, then that would be perceived as 'awkward' or 'aloof'.

First of all, you have to meet the requirements of a personality disorder, which are:

A. Significant impairments in self (identity or self-direction) and interpersonal (empathy or intimacy) functioning.
B. One or more pathological personality trait domains or trait facets.
C. The impairments in personality functioning and the individual's personality trait expression are relatively stable across time and consistent across situations.
D. The impairments in personality functioning and the individual's personality trait expression are not better understood as normative for the individual's developmental stage or sociocultural environment.
E. The impairments in personality functioning and the individual‟s personality trait expression are not solely due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, medication) or a general medical condition (e.g., severe head trauma)

To be a PD someone has to have some part of their life completely derailed. Severe underemployment, severely ineffective relationships, things like that.

Social awkwardness means you are uncomfortable, perhaps lacking skills, but you can white knuckle through it. PD means you can't. PD's mean that if you force yourself you will end up suicidal.

My therapist told me today that there are two consistencies in my life - 1) I believe I am to blame for everything that happens to everyone around me, that I feel I am responsible for the choices others make if I am involved in their lives, and 2) that the only solution, the only way those people could be happy and make better choices, is if I die and get out of their hair.

That is avoidance, that deep seated belief that you are to blame. Does that have anything to do with being socially awkward? No. It's the same as avoidants who are depressed - they aren't also depressed, it's not a separate thing, they are depressed because of dealing with their PD. The social awkwardness comes out of the avoidance.

There are tons of times I can pass socially. If I know I'll never see the other person again, even if I'm forced to talk to them a little bit, I don't come off as awkward. I'm seen as - horrors! - funny and interesting, and then God help me, they want to keep talking to me, and then suddenly there is someone else I have to feel responsible for, that if I'm not funny and interesting every time I see them then I will disappoint them and ruin their day, and aren't I a crappy person for doing that. That is avoidance.

Do people with SA and GAD also have low self-esteem to the extent that avies do? How is their self-esteem in general?

I think if you have anxiety issues like GAD and SA, that there are going to be self esteem issues involved as well. Medication may make a difference to their situation somewhat. It's really going to depend on the individual and their experiences/upbringing.

I have all three- I often can't quite work out what symptom belongs with what, but I know I have things with my anxiety that other Avies don't feel and that other people with GAD or SA might not feel and I do. I guess it's more important in how I deal with it, than what goes with what.

Social awkwardness may be slightly different for each person too- eg. one person may be preoccupied with a particular thing- eg. the way they speak, or they way they hold themselves. It can be hidden sometimes too- some people are good at disguising it.

Right, forgot about the medication issue. PD's are not brain chemical imbalances, so they don't respond well to medications, but there are medications that can alleviate or diminish anxiety.

About the self-esteem issue - I found this article which appears to confirm that low self-esteem is common for those with social anxiety:
https://socialanxietyinstitute.org/top-10-list-feelings-social-anxiety-causes

The thing is that people with GAD don't have social anxiety, just anxiety which is a constant worry, but it's not about being social. This is at least how I understand it. I wonder if there is a link to having social anxiety and low self-esteem, or in general to anxiety. Because if you feel inferior to other people, I am guessing that it must be connected to some fear of people.

Creative_nothing or twistednerve should have something to say on this, since they claimed they were diagnosed with GAD.

Wuji wrote:This excessive worry often interferes with daily functioning, as individuals suffering with GAD typically anticipate disaster, and are overly concerned about everyday matters such as health issues, money, death, family problems, friendship problems, interpersonal relationship problems, or work difficulties.

No problem talking in public.

However I remember reading that a high percentage of people diagnosed with GAD, also met criteria for AvPD.

I dont think I am inferior or socially unappealing. But socially inept? Maybe. But if so, is that a self-esteem issue, or it is just that I am trully inconvenient weirdo?

I tend to think GAD as the basic anxiety disorder, being OCD, SAD ... more specific, but generally people who have SAD, are also likely to have generalized anxiety.

ICD-GAD wrote:C. The disorder does not meet the criteria for panic disorder (F41.0), phobic anxiety disorders (F40.-), obsessive-compulsive disorder (F42.-) or hypochondriacal disorder (F45.2).

I don't believe AvPDs are socially awkward. And I don't believe that social awkwardness has anything to do with being uncomfortable in social situations. I know a lot of socially awkward people but me and my ex (both AvPD) were definitely not socially awkward.

Social awkwardness are people who don't know how to behave appropriately in public. Their behavior is often embarrassing to those around them. They don't follow social norms of behavior, don't pick up on social cues, don't know how to interact appropriately.

I have plenty of examples.

I know a girl who is probably BPD. She behaves very manically. She talks nonstop. She interrupts. She is bouncing off the walls all the time. People she's talking to show very clear signs of disinterest but she doesn't pick up on it. As they're walking away, she'll literally follow them and continue talking. People get very frustrated with her, very quickly and she loses friends but she has no clue. She doesn't take any responsibility for it. She thinks everything is their fault. Just this morning, I avoided 2 calls from this girl because I am extremely depressed and she's been driving me crazy with nonstop phone calls lately to brag about her new relationship while I'm depressed (and have told her why) about my recent breakup and loneliness. Yet she calls me multiple times a day to brag about her relationship. Very inappropriate but she doesn't recognize that. So today I avoided 2 calls from her and the next thing I knew, she was knocking on my front door. Inappropriate.

I know another cluster B, probably NPD maybe somewhat APD, with paranoid thoughts on top of it. Possibly StPD. Her twin brother is schizophrenic. Her behavior is extremely inappropriate in public. She doesn't stop talking, talks fast, repeats words/phrases again and again, demands that everyone give her things for free, throws a tantrum if she doesn't get her way, very belligerent and entitled. Extremely rude to waiters. Very disrespectful inappropriate behavior. She pisses people off wherever she goes. She's had doctors refuse to treat her anymore because of her rude, disrespectful, demanding behavior. But she doesn't ever stop until she gets her way. People usually give her whatever she wants just to shut her up.

I have recently been on a few dates with a guy who I'm sure is StPD. He talks 100% of the time. Won't let me get a word in edgewise. If I ask the simplest of questions, like I asked "what time do you eat lunch?" he rambles on with his entire life story. Rather than a simple answer. He gave me his entire breakdown of his timeline and meal times and routine, starting from the previous night. It went on for at least 20 min. And this is how it is with every single thing I ask. If he asks the waiter for extra napkins, he can't just ask for extra napkins, he has to go into a long explanation of WHY he needs extra napkins. He doesn't know when to stop. He doesn't know the appropriate amount of information to give. The waiter is trying to get away to help others but he keeps them there by rambling on and on. When we were leaving a restaurant, he made a point to go up to an employee we hadn't even seen (and this was after closing time and they just wanted us out of there), and told him how wonderful the food was, how great the service was, how he used to come here in the 80s, blah blah blah. Another 15 min speech where the guy and the other employees kept repeating "ok, goodnight" as a cue to get out. But he doesn't pick up on these cues. He just keeps going and going and going. Our "conversations" are completely 1 sided. Him talking the entire time. If I try to talk, he'll either interrupt me, or he'll totally space out and I can tell he's not paying attention to a thing I'm saying.

These are examples of social awkwardness. None of these people are uncomfortable in social situations. They just don't know how to behave appropriately. Being quiet and introverted is not social awkwardness, in my opinion. I'm a quiet, introverted person, but I can interact with wait staff and employees of stores and give the appropriate amount of information, seem polite, and not waste their time with my life story.

hmmmm. my husband is socially awkward. i am avpd and socially awkward. pds by nature severely impact your daily functioning. that's the main difference.