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Re: The official off-topic thread

Postby zausel » Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:21 pm

ok

Esters are chemical compounds derived by reacting an oxoacid with a hydroxyl compound such as an alcohol or phenol


oxoacid is an acid that contains oxygen.

hydroxyl compound is simply an oxygen atom covalently bonded to a hydrogen atom.
----------example: water. In the case of ester, alcohol and phenol are examples.

covalent bonds are a bond between two atoms that share electrons.

alcohol is a hydroxyl compound bonded to carbon atom.

phenol is a hydroxyl compound bonded to a aromatic hydrocarbon group

aromatic hydrocarbon group is a group of alternating single a double bonded carbon.
--------example: C-C=C-C=C-C=C. Where (-) is asingle bond, and (=) is a double. This group is usually a ring.


So, react a oxoacid with a hydroxyl compound( alcohol or phenol to create in particular, ester) and you create a ester.

Esters are ubiquitous. Most naturally occurring fats and oils are the fatty acid esters of glycerol.


ubiquitous - found everywhere.

fatty acids are, what you need to know about them, high energy (ATP) compounds.

glycerol is a hydroxyl compound. react it with am oxoacid, and you create fatty acid esters.

Esters are usually derived from an inorganic acid or organic acid in which at least one -OH (hydroxyl) group is replaced by an -O-alkyl (alkoxy) group


I'm not sure on this part.

carboxyl acids are organic acids, and inorganic acids are not organic acid. Carboxyl acid seems to be the most common acid esters use, I think becuase it contains a hydroxyl group also. Since it contains both the oxoacid and the hydroxyl group, all you need is the dilute alkali to create the ester. From my understanding the difference in inorganic and organic is whether they contain carbon or not. organic contains carbon, inorganic does not. BUT, in some cases organic and inorganic are found bonded together.

it says MOST naturally occuring, which to me implies that there are some fats that are not esters. but quite alot of them are esters. non-natural fats are likely NOT esters, and there are likely a FEW natural fats that are not esters.

Does anyone know what happens if an ester (assuming there are many different ones, but I have no idea at all) and sodium hydroxide solution are put together?


To create an ester, you need an oxoacid and a hydroxyl compound(alcohol or phenol) inside a base. This base is water, dilute acid, or dilute alkali. The most common base is dilute alkali when creating ester. Sodium hydroxide is a dilute alkali. So you get a dilute alkali, throw in some oxoacid and hydroxyl compounds and you will then have esters in the dilute alkali.

Dilute means to make weaker. diluting an acid would raise the pH, diluting a alkali would lower the pH. water is considered neutral( pH 7.0).

Anyone who is more knowledgeable of chemistry please correct the mistakes. I'm having to learn this as I teach it lol. But at least now I know how to make ester... :mrgreen:
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Re: The official off-topic thread

Postby Camelidae » Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:32 pm

i will have to re-read this a couple times, but thanks. :)

zausel wrote:Anyone who is more knowledgeable of chemistry please correct the mistakes.


not like there were so many other people checking out this thread at the moment, lol.

I'm having to learn this as I teach it lol.


dont go to any trouble though. i dont think i would have read up on it, had i been in your shoes.

But at least now I know how to make ester... :mrgreen:


err, yeah. awesome. one step closer to global dominance and finding out about the sense of life.
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Re: The official off-topic thread

Postby zausel » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:19 am

Camelidae wrote:dont go to any trouble though. i dont think i would have read up on it, had i been in your shoes.


The way I see it, I learned something to so it wasnt any trouble. To me, you can't know to much, but you can know to little.

edit: I have to take chemistry for a nursing degree anyway, so you just helped me study in a way.
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Re: The official off-topic thread

Postby Camelidae » Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:10 pm

So I thought I´d open up to my mum as she said I should, because she´d be open-minded too. So I told her I have been feeling pretty #######5 and low for the last week or so on and off (wrote it down so I know) and that I have been thinking about self-harm. What do you think that wonderful woman said? She asked me why I had to pretend to feel bad and if I was trying to work through a list of mental illnesses just to make her life harder and to bother her, out of malice, of course. I did not even tell her about the rest then. What a lovely experience that was. :| I don´t think I will do that again. A lot of people have a way of throwing things right back into your face the second you decide to trust them even just a little. I´m wondering why.
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Re: The official off-topic thread

Postby zausel » Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:44 pm

Camelidae wrote:So I thought I´d open up to my mum as she said I should, because she´d be open-minded too. So I told her I have been feeling pretty #######5 and low for the last week or so on and off (wrote it down so I know) and that I have been thinking about self-harm. What do you think that wonderful woman said? She asked me why I had to pretend to feel bad and if I was trying to work through a list of mental illnesses just to make her life harder and to bother her, out of malice, of course. I did not even tell her about the rest then. What a lovely experience that was. :| I don´t think I will do that again. A lot of people have a way of throwing things right back into your face the second you decide to trust them even just a little. I´m wondering why.


Sounds like my dad. He'll ask what's wrong with me, I've tried saying twice, and somehow everything gets twisted back onto me. I've given up on him and no longer even try. I do understand that my actions and thoughts are my own, and I control them, but after 20 years of this $#%^, some stuff is almost just natural and I can't really control, see, or rationalize some of it. I mean when someone is about afoot from your face yelling so loud they are spitting on you for, anywhere from an hour to two hours, you just learn to not hear them. And now that he doesn't yell...as much, I'm suppose to just drop that like a back-bag. Yelling or not, it's an automatic response to him being around me. How do you just stop automatic responses? He says I need to stop being a bitch... his childhood was worse. It's good to hear were the same person, and should be handling things the same exact way.../sarcasm.

My point being, you can't let people get to you. My method may not be the healthiest, or most constructive, but in order to survive you just need to learn to not hear people when they do it. Even if the consequences wreak havic on my future. Having a wrecked future is better than no future, IMO.

My hypothesis on why this happens. Projection. " I handled (X) situations this way, so everyone should be able to handle it this way." "I got through life without thinking about suicide, so everyone should be able to.". So when someone doesn't do something the way they did it, your weak. I guess it's an assumption everyone should be thinking the same way, were all the same person, and ignorance of evolution and biology. If that made sense.

bout all I have, without being a Debbie Downer...sorry if I wasn't any help or of comfort.
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Re: The official off-topic thread

Postby Camelidae » Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:35 pm

zausel wrote:Yelling or not, it's an automatic response to him being around me. How do you just stop automatic responses?


This is a rhetorical question, right? Anyway, you´d have to become aware of the automatic response itself, then what causes it. I think what is important is how you feel, not necessarily what made you feel this way. Of course it has to do with your fathers behaviour, but somebody else may have felt differently from you and therefore may have reacted differently too, creating a different automatic response and different believes for them. I think you´d have to go from there, be aware of something while you are doing it and try to change it step by step or something.

Having a wrecked future is better than no future, IMO.


In a way, that is good to hear.

" I handled (X) situations this way, so everyone should be able to handle it this way."


Yeah, somewhat. The phrase my mum keeps repeating is "I just really don´t get it, why would anybody feel this way?" I think in a way it is fascinating how, if she does not understand something, in her mind it must be false or twisted -- or she perceives it as some sort of personal offence.

bout all I have, without being a Debbie Downer...sorry if I wasn't any help or of comfort.


No, it´s fine. I just needed to get it off my chest, I´m thankful someone took the time to say something at all.

I´m so so sorry you had to go through the things you did. You really didn´t deserve any of it and neither does anybody else for that matter. Not pitying you (I think). What´s the difference between pity and sympathy anyway?
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Re: The official off-topic thread

Postby zausel » Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:52 pm

Camelidae wrote:
zausel wrote:Yelling or not, it's an automatic response to him being around me. How do you just stop automatic responses?


This is a rhetorical question, right? Anyway, you´d have to become aware of the automatic response itself, then what causes it. I think what is important is how you feel, not necessarily what made you feel this way. Of course it has to do with your fathers behaviour, but somebody else may have felt differently from you and therefore may have reacted differently too, creating a different automatic response and different believes for them. I think you´d have to go from there, be aware of something while you are doing it and try to change it step by step or something.

Having a wrecked future is better than no future, IMO.


In a way, that is good to hear.

" I handled (X) situations this way, so everyone should be able to handle it this way."


Yeah, somewhat. The phrase my mum keeps repeating is "I just really don´t get it, why would anybody feel this way?" I think in a way it is fascinating how, if she does not understand something, in her mind it must be false or twisted -- or she perceives it as some sort of personal offence.

bout all I have, without being a Debbie Downer...sorry if I wasn't any help or of comfort.


No, it´s fine. I just needed to get it off my chest, I´m thankful someone took the time to say something at all.

I´m so so sorry you had to go through the things you did. You really didn´t deserve any of it and neither does anybody else for that matter. Not pitying you (I think). What´s the difference between pity and sympathy anyway?


from my understanding, pity is feeling sorry for from a stance of superiority. While sympathy is feeling sorry and placing yourself in their shoes, being on the same level.

I drive a BMW, your car breaks down, I say "that sucks" and leave, go about business. I feel pity. Sucks to have a car break down, but it's not my business so good luck with it.

I drive a BMW, your car breaks down, I stop and try to help you. I'm sympathizing with you. Sucks to have a car break down, so I stop and try to help you get it up and running again or get you to a gas station, or phone or something so you can get some real help if I'm not able to do anything.

so I guess pity is the Aholes form of sympathy.
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Re: The official off-topic thread

Postby Camelidae » Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:10 pm

Ah, right. I thought there was a difference, but wouldn´t have been able to put my finger on it. Seems about right.

Sorry about the sorry part, btw. You said you didn´t want people to be, well, concerned, I guess. It just was a horrible thing to imagine.
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Re: The official off-topic thread

Postby zausel » Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:51 pm

Camelidae wrote:Ah, right. I thought there was a difference, but wouldn´t have been able to put my finger on it. Seems about right.

Sorry about the sorry part, btw. You said you didn´t want people to be, well, concerned, I guess. It just was a horrible thing to imagine.


well, it's a simple click to get away here, so it doesn't bother me. IRL you can't just exit a window. People can call, text, show up, talk, e-mail, facebook etc. It's hard to get away IRL, so that's when it bothers me.
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Re: The official off-topic thread

Postby Camelidae » Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:01 pm

Ok, embarassing question. How do you convert minutes into hours or the other way round when looking it up on the net is no option (i.e. test in school)?

Since that´s where I got stuck: What would 4 minutes be in hours? How do I do it?
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