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Why does everybody hate Aspies but...

Postby sustainthebitterend » Sat Jun 06, 2009 7:50 am

Why does everybody hate Aspies and yet the world would be nowhere without them? :?

To the NT population we may be socially sluggish and naive but in the end we almost always have much more to offer to the world. When I'm accused of falling behind the crowd my response is that I'm simply mentally self-actualizing and not 'behind', at least in the end. I mean c'mon, Einstein didn't speak until he was nine years old and the harassment from his peers was probably enough to cause enough schema's to carry him to his grave. And yet somebody sure left his mark for being ''behind.''

My point is that while those with AS take longer to bloom than most others, their roots are a lot deeper. Every NT respects the theories of Einstein, the paintings of DaVinci and the music of Mozart but very few have the patience to deal with AS sufferers in general. Understandably the general population is ignorant of the condition as it is and even fewer would connect the condition to historical genius, but while the NT's discount the social validity of the condition, they would never lose faith in the invention.

As I see it part of the reason behind the Aspie hate is the fact that the NT's only have to deal with the ends that justified the means and not the revision in between, that is to say that people only experience the effects of AS inventions and not the inventor himself. Everybody living in the twenty-first century is familiar with generated electricity (If you claim you are not then you are obviously lying---how else would you be reading my online thesis?) but how many people have to deal with Nikola Tesla when the flip on the lights?

Perhaps there will be a day when human ignorance is at least slightly more lukewarm to neurological difference. If people could only see the gifts each of us carry inside, and encourage an environment conductive to the maturation of those talents, how much further we would be, both as a human race and as individuals. When the veil of subjective experience is lifted and the whole of human history condensed into a pint sized chronology, maybe then the rest of the world will see how much AS talent has shaped this world...
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Re: Why does everybody hate Aspies but...

Postby davidp » Sat Jun 06, 2009 9:23 am

It's only in the last few years that I've come to realise I have AS (I am 36 now). It's interesting that you say 'Why does everyone hate Aspies?'. If I give you some of my experiences perhaps you will be able to say if you feel similar and any ways you deal with it both mentally and in practice?
At school I was very unpopular. While I Had one or two 'nerd' friends, everyone else seemed to have a real problem with me and I just couldn't undertsand what it was. I still don't quite know. The girls were the worst by far. They used to shower me with really hurtful insults about my personality, daily. The teachers were totally unsympathetic and had a huge degree of tolerance for the bullies, almost as if they were in agreement with them. My reports were always poor saying that I was unncommunicative, didn't join in etc.
In adulthood, I have gained a bit more confidence with age (I am 36 now) and am blessed with having met my soul mate young, so am married with 2 children, but still have real problems, both socially and at work. A common problem is people asking me what they believe are straightforward questions and having to ask them what they mean, quite often to laughter from people in earshot. For example yesterday, picking my boys up from school another Father asked me if 'things were back to normal now?' I had no idea what he was talking about, but yes of course I'm the one everyone laughs at for not understanding, couldn't possibly be that the other person wasn't clear. It turns out he meant after my exams. How the hell was I supposed to know? When I mentioned exams to him weeks back he wasn't listening anyway?!
At work I am having a terrible time, both for reasons explained above for not understanding what people are telling me and for not doing my work properly. I work in accounts and am studying to be a chartered accountant, but I can't do it practically and am getting into lots of trouble for mistakes I'm making. No matter how hard I try whatever I do seems to be wrong, inaccurate or not what was asked of me. Even writing things down clearly doesn't seem to help. I feel like a complete failure and that it was a big mistake trying to better myself - the fact is with this AS I will never be able to have a 'well-paid' job as I neither have the personality nor the focus. I wam wondering whether I should just do something menial and manual?
Anyway these are some of my problems that I have got of my chest. I would value some empathy and advice help, or just to say 'yes I have that too!'
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Re: Why does everybody hate Aspies but...

Postby Joolz » Sat Jun 06, 2009 2:41 pm

Hi guys,

Firstly, I can relate 100% to DavidP's school experiences. I went to school in the '70s and had a miserable time. The bullying was oppressive and continuous, girls were also most hurtful and although at the time the teachers seemed to be on the side of the bullies, in retrospect I don't think they were. I suspect more that in reality, it was down to being unwilling to make an effort to deal with a kid that they thought was "being difficult" as AS wasn't even known of in the UK at the time. I think the negative reaction among peer group is also partly down to fear and/or confusion. For every action an NT makes during an interaction, they expect one of a set of "appropriate" reactions as laid down in the unwritten and more often than not, unspoken rules of social acceptance. As we don't see the unspoken side that makes up 90% of communication, we're born to be ostracised. In reality, I think the number of actual violent bullies who actively set out to pick on me was quite small (1-3) which leaves the majority of it in the hands of sheep who although they were probably indifferent to my existence and wouldn't have paid me any attention normally, joined in because it was a way of solidifying their position within the flock. Note that I make the differentiation between pack (as in Wolves) and flock (as in Sheep). A wolf pack hunts as a group with a definite purpose while a flock of sheep just follows whichever idiot leads them.

Anyway, by the time I left school, I was a twisted, confused and extremely pissed off bunny with all the self confidence of a concentration camp victim and a bitter loathing of the human race in general. The change came when I took control, which can best be summarised in the phrase "f**k the lot of them". I'd been trying to interact with people and craved company which led to a string of half-arsed attempts at relationships but in the end I took control and stopped trying to be like them while I didn't know how to be like them, if that makes sense. Fast forward 25 years and I'm still seen as weird by many people but I've put a lot of effort into working out the rules of social interaction so I can blend into a group and seem "normal". This has two effects in as much as they feel more comfortable and less "spooked" and I feel less exposed. If they don't want to know me I honestly don't care. I could try to explain AS and ask for their understanding but fundamentally, I don't think they'd give a toss.

With the job thing, why do it if it makes you miserable. I went through a 6 year period of working 80-100 hours a week chasing wealth but all it got me was a near mental breakdown. I now work for a non-profit with 800 users on its network and earn 20k a year doing a job that a friend of mine earns 44k for doing in the private sector for a quarter of the users. For me, the difference is the environment as the people in the non-profit tend to be there because they feel like they're doing some good as opposed to purely lining their pockets. I'd far rather be on 20k in a job that I like than earning 44k tolerating something I hate.

Anyhow, last thing, don't expect the general population to sympathise with us until at least one major soap opera has a realistic AS character in it. For one, I doubt many of them have the attention span to take on board what AS means from a non soap source and two, unless they have a kid of their own with AS, the requirement for an emotional angle/attachment beyond a set of symptoms listed on a page means they won't really care or understand beyond being patronising anyway. The only risk with this plan will be that the script writers will go to an extreme and create a character who has every known Aspie symptom to excess and just comes across as scary. Then, if you do tell someone you have AS they'll say "You can't have, your not like the one on the telly".

If you're starting to think that I'm wary of the human race in general, you'd be right. I don't hate it but I don't feel much of a need to actively seek involvement.
I try to take one day at a time but sometimes several days attack me all at once.
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Re: Why does everybody hate Aspies but...

Postby Chucky » Sat Jun 06, 2009 8:34 pm

I can also relate to the school thing, but I went to an all-boys school. There were times when I encountered the girls from the all-girls school in my town, and they would sometimes go out of their way to call me names. I never understood what I had did wrong. Did they know me or something?; did the guys in my school tell them about me? In general, however, guys are easier to manage than girls at that age. Guys would just ignore you, and not go out of their way to bully you like the girls did. The guys used me to get their homework done, but I didn't mind because I thought that's what friends did.

'hate' is a strong word though, sustainthebitterend. Do you honestly feel hated? I know for a fact that we aren't hated. We just aren't really included in anythign. We have to make an effort ourselves if we want to be part of society. If we don't make then effort, then we are ignored. It's certainly not hatred thuogh...

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Re: Why does everybody hate Aspies but...

Postby sustainthebitterend » Sat Jun 06, 2009 10:57 pm

I suppose 'hated' is indeed a very visceral reaction and does not convey an accurate representation of the NT's view of AS in general but it was a passing impressive I was feeling at the moment. Joolz made an interesting post in which I can relate to. I was never bullied in school and kept largely to myself. However I recall being talked to a lot mostly because I was known as the 'smart kid' but was never included in anything that didn't have a grade attached to it.

During my first year of college my Psychology professor said I was incredibly intelligent for someone my age (She called me an Old Soul, if you believe in that kind of thing.) but emotionally empty. My love life has been a source of neverending trama. Once I establish a relationship with a girl and she finds that I am unable to 'read' her, she loses interest in the relationship but keeps it 'going' just for a good laugh. In fact last summer I was on the verge of suicide because of a rejection.

Does anyone find that relationships become easier as you get older or will I forever be doomed to miss the 'signs'? During High School before I was aware of what AS was (I knew I had it but couldn't give you a defintion.) I remember having more courage in attempting to establish relationships but was gradually broken down after numerous rejections to the point of not even caring. At ninteen years of age I am still a virgin but I have been told by NT friends that sex isn't worth worrying about, although I think that is their way of saying 'I don't want to hear it.'

Are people with AS capable of having steady relationships and a good sex life or am I forever doomed to be a lonely passanger on a ship that is sinking?

I think I need help sometimes... :cry:
Shadows only exist because of two things: the sun and something strong to act as a beacon...
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Re: Why does everybody hate Aspies but...

Postby Sarcastica » Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:43 pm

Similar experience to Davidp and the rest of you 'Odd Bods'. I was always under the misapprehension that girls were gentle, kind and caring, DOH, how wrong I got that one!! Males pale into insignificance when it comes to a venomous tongue, indirect aggression, spreading of nasty untrue rumours and spitefulness. In Sydney lately the have been News stories in regarding mobile phone videos of teenager girls attecking a more vulnerable girls. Punching too the face and kicking the girl in the face on the ground were the norms. Female NTs do not use rationale or logic when they make assumptions about our behaviour and intentions. They are ruled by emotions and jump to incorrect conclusions regarding us. The amplify the term 'Pack Dog mentality' and once they get some numbers they go for the throat without mercy. Nice to vent and generalise for once!!
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Re: Why does everybody hate Aspies but...

Postby Chucky » Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:06 am

sustainthebitterend wrote:Does anyone find that relationships become easier as you get older or will I forever be doomed to miss the 'signs'? During High School before I was aware of what AS was (I knew I had it but couldn't give you a defintion.) I remember having more courage in attempting to establish relationships but was gradually broken down after numerous rejections to the point of not even caring. At ninteen years of age I am still a virgin but I have been told by NT friends that sex isn't worth worrying about, although I think that is their way of saying 'I don't want to hear it.'

Are people with AS capable of having steady relationships and a good sex life or am I forever doomed to be a lonely passanger on a ship that is sinking?

I think I need help sometimes... :cry:

I can assure you that it all becomes easier with age. I am 26 now, but can remember who I was when I was 19. I have only had sex once in my life and it lasted less than 30 seconds. I didn't enjoy it either, and I was only 22 or 23 then. There are more important things in life. Anyawy - yeh - the general idea is that things become easier as you get older. Adding to what sarcastica has just written though, girls certainly are more vindictive for whatever reasons. Stay clear of them.
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Re: Why does everybody hate Aspies but...

Postby TNSe » Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:43 am

Unfortunately you will realize that most girls are not worth the time. Those that are worth it will help you.
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Re: Why does everybody hate Aspies but...

Postby sustainthebitterend » Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:09 am

I agree with what you are saying and by no means do I believe sex to be important. If anything sex is more of a curiosity and not something I go after. Also, I can vouch for the fact that most girls are vindictive. Long story short: there was a girl who pretended to like me for who I was but was nothing more than a shallow whore. I almost convinced myself that losing my virginity to her was worth it, if only for experience's sake. If I have learned anything about relationships it is to go at your own pace and not let society's constraints weigh you down, hence forcing you into situations that you will later regret.
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Re: Why does everybody hate Aspies but...

Postby Joolz » Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:37 am

sustainthebitterend wrote:My love life has been a source of neverending trama. Once I establish a relationship with a girl and she finds that I am unable to 'read' her, she loses interest in the relationship but keeps it 'going' just for a good laugh.

This is an interesting line. What makes you think that she was keeping it going for a laugh. I'm not doubting your word, but I just wonder how you know. Did she say she was, did someone else tell you? I was in a similar position at one point where I was in a relationship and discovered my so-called GF was was getting jiggy with one of my "mates" behind my back. I mean, why would you do that? We're supposed to be the emotionally stunted ones yet I wouldn't do this to someone because I wouldn't want to cause them hurt.
Does anyone find that relationships become easier as you get older or will I forever be doomed to miss the 'signs'?

Yes they will. The more you learn to recognise "the signs", the easier it becomes. The tricky bit is finding enough humanity to watch to in order to work out what's going on. I joined a charity group that my talents fitted and just spent three years observing how people behaved. Rule one during this period was don't try to get involved a relationship with anyone there as it would change the way people act towards me and as I'd probably mess it up anyway so it would not be useful.
During High School before I was aware of what AS was (I knew I had it but couldn't give you a defintion.) I remember having more courage in attempting to establish relationships but was gradually broken down after numerous rejections to the point of not even caring.

Yep, nothing drags you down like repeated catastrophe. :? At the moment, You're where I was at about 18. It is a dark, bleak place but it's also escapable. Several of us on here have kids and have been in long term relationships. I've been with my other half now for 23 years and we have two kids, one who's definitely AS and the other who has tendencies towards it. On the plus side, you know you have AS, and this is a distinct advantage as you know what makes you different and where your weak pints are. I just thought that I was a freak.
At ninteen years of age I am still a virgin but I have been told by NT friends that sex isn't worth worrying about, although I think that is their way of saying 'I don't want to hear it.'

Believe your NT friends. They are speaking the truth but I'd change the phrase to "sex isn't the be all and end all of a relationship". During a an all night session of intoxicant driven soul searching with my one, life-long NT friend he came out with the drunken statement "There's nothing so over-rated as sex and nothing so under-rated as a really good dump" before cracking up and sliding off his chair. The trouble is, it's stuck in my head despite the fact that I couldn't remember much else the next morning, so maybe it rang a bell somewhere. ;)
Are people with AS capable of having steady relationships and a good sex life or am I forever doomed to be a lonely passanger on a ship that is sinking?

See above. Yes you can. There are a lot of previous posts where relationships are being discussed and I think going through these will be useful to you. It's certainly a subject that keeps popping up.
I think I need help sometimes... :cry:

We all need help sometimes and this board is a good place to find it. I dunno about you but I feel quite at home here as I can relate a lot of the things people are talking about.
I try to take one day at a time but sometimes several days attack me all at once.
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