Asperger's and Schizophrenia

This confusion came to my brain from another thread here...

I have some questions about the distinctions and/or similarities of schizophrenia and asperger's. I know that autistic people were diagnosed as childhood schizophrenics before autism existed as a diagnosis.

So what were the similarities that drove doctors to think that autism was expressing itself in a similar enough manner to think these kids were schizophrenic?

I know that people with Asperger's have an affected dopamine system, which is also true of schizophrenics. Schizophrenics have hallucinations, but people with ASDs have been known to have them too.

I'm just confused and got to thinking more about this because my mother was diagnosed as schizophrenic, then later they decided that she wasn't which i always found strange. It's not something that just goes away. She had hallucinations during two days in her life. She is still unable to function in society - doesn't leave the house and has panic attacks multiple times a day - but her diagnosis now is bipolar. The neuropsychologist that diagnosed me with AS suggested that many older people that were diagnosed as schizophrenic were actually autistic - we were talking about my mother at the time.

Of course they're both just sets of symptoms in the end. But why all the confusion, or is it just me that's confused?

Well, schizophrenics show inappropriate responses and can be apathetic. I am diagnosed as a schizophrenic. I read about the autism connection, but don't really know about it. I just took the AS test and it said it was likely that I have AS, which is new to me. I think a major difference is the hallucinations and delusion. I guess with an autistic child who cannot communicate, a doctor in the past might miss the difference because they couldn't get all the info. Also,I read that there is a relation genetically.

Brains_&_Burgers,

I believe that you are trying to find links between the two when, in fact, they are now regarded as entirely different disorders, existing in different classifications. Some symptoms overlap - yes - but due to different reasons. If you look across the different disorders out there, you will find so many symptoms overlap, and many MANY similarities between them all.

By the way, people are usually misdiagnosed (I believe) because they are never honest with their doctor in the first place.

Kevin

As Chucky mentions, ASD and Schizophrenia are now considered entirely different conditions. If you're wondering how professionals can sometimes get confused between Aspergers and Schizophrenia, I think misinterpretation or miscommunication of symptoms & behaviors amy play a part, for instance:

Paranoid delusions - someone with Aspergers who has difficulting interpreting social cues and responding appropriately could eventually come to believe that everyone is out to get them... however, this is markedly different than typical Schizophrenic delusion because a Schiz normally has a specific "They" who are out to get them, not just people in general.

Delusions of reference - I've never heard of an Aspie believing that some unrelated thing is actually related to them... like a Shizophrenic receiving special messages from the TV. Although, since Aspies tend to be pattern matchers by nature, they may pick up on a pattern throughout several TV programs/ads that appear like a message of some sort but it's not specifically directed at them.

Hallucinations - experiencing things that others do not has a very different meaning for Aspergers -- many of us are very sensitive to sound, light, vibration, etc so the sensation/stimulus does actually exist in the environment even if other people aren't sensitive enough to pick them up (like a flickering light or a background noise above or below normal human range or a very faint smell). A Schizophrenic's brain is manufacturing a sensation that is not actually occuring in the environment and it can not be traced to something or detected by any measuring devices.

Disordered speech - an Aspie may often talk to themselves as they work out ideas, but that communication is still ordered and logical. Even if the observer isn't aware of the topic they can usually follow the conversation and it's obvious the person is having a complete conversation with themselves. However Schizophrenics tend to speak random words or disconnected jumbles and can appear to be talking to random entities that may or may not be present.

So, as you can see, what appears to be a symptom of one condition, when viewed with more care and matched with other symptoms can easily be seen as a symptom of another condition and exclude the first condition. Since Aspies can have problems understanding spoken questions, can have difficulty determining what a doctor is asking when a question is vague, and often have difficulties clearly communicating their thoughts and feelings you can see how a misdiagnosis could occur... even if they weren't intentionally being dishonest with their doctor.

The confusion stems from a long time ago, when Bleuler used the word 'autistic' in the description of symptoms of social withdrawel. Kanner and Asperger later reused this word.

Yes, I understand what's been said... and that ASD and schizophrenia are entirely different conditions. I don't think I was trying to find links between the two as much as wondering how an autistic person could be misconstrued as schizophrenic... it just didn't make sense to me. Regardless of the fact that autism didn't exist as a diagnosis for some of those instances under question. But plicketycat, your thorough breakdown was quite helpful, thanks.

Aspergers is very similar to Schizoid Personality Disorder, which is popularly considered part of the Schizophrenic spectrum, because of its similarity to Schizotypal PD. However, studies since have shown little connection between Schizoid and Schizophrenic PDs.

I have characteristics of a mild form Schizoid PD as well as my Aspergers characteristics. But I was only diagnosed with Aspergers, because the term 'Schizoid' has such a bad rap, these days. There is not much research on it, compared to other disorders. But to see the overlaps and differences between the two, I recommend Sula Wolff's Loners: The Life Path of Unusual Children.

Aspergers is not very similar to schizoid PD. Some people with AS may have schizoid PD traits or they may have Borderline PD traits, have comorbid disorders such as Schizophrenia/Bipolar/ADHD and the list goes on. It is erroneous to group AS people as being very similar to one particular disorder group.

People diagnosed with Aspergers appear to have a miriad of different disorder traits without satisfying a seperate diagnoses. Who can associate with OCD, ADHD, GAD, Avoidant PD traits to mention just a few.

Hows about this...people with Childhood-Onset Schizophrenia often have developmental dissabilities (talking late, walking late etc) and some are even diagnosed with an AUtistic Disorder.

As well there is a disorder called Multiple-Complex Developmental Disorder. WHich is a big word for someone who is both Autismand has Schizophrenia at an early age (there are even Bipolar Symptoms attributed to it). I actually was so interested about this disorder (considering I am both AUtistic and SChizophrenic) that i made a informational webpage at www.mcdd.webs.com.

Anyway yes theyre are two diferent disorders. And symptoms overlap. And in some instances they are diagnosed together. Dont get me started I will confuse you more than I will help.

Mouse

I would like to start off by saying I was first in a hospital for fighting with my brother when I was about 9 and was diagnosed with OCD as I was obsessive about people not touching things in my room i was in and out of psych wards through my teens for fighting with my mother and was socially awkward and held my head down in fear of looking people in the eyes and extremely shy in school during those years.I dont think I ever had a true friend but I always wanted friends and good ones and did whatever it took to have one and tried so hard to please them that I was naive and sometimes they werent real friends.In my late teens they asked me once in a hospital if I hear voices and I said yes I hear yours right now, not knowing that wasnt a good answer.My outbursts with my mother increased as she was strict and I became lazier and depressed as I was becoming a social outcast when I would speak to therapists I would say things like I'm not remembering things I should seeming negative but I thought and obssessed about my actions so much that it was perfection I was after and hard on myself not jumbled thoughts as they say but now in my 20s Im lazier and more depressed realizing im different .Some of my many mental health diagnosises(misdiagnosises i believe)include OCD shizoaffective disorder pervasive developmental disorder and recently Asperger's my father is diagnosed with schizophrenia .I tend to worry alot especially about my health and have never heard voices from people that arent there and with such an active brain I have that makes it hard to direct my hyperactive brain to much hard to understand social interactions of peers as I dont purposely try to be antisocial I wonder If im misdiagnosed in some of my diagnosises