Our partner

Addicted to pot and obsessed.

Asperger's Syndrome message board, open discussion, and online support group.

Moderator: TDT

Re: Addicted to pot and obsessed.

Postby Fallen_Angel73 » Wed May 29, 2013 6:00 pm

Eclectic_Aspie wrote:Certain types of cannabis are a mild hallucinogen, but lack of sleep is a much stronger hallucinogen...maybe we should ban that too?

If you mean "we" as in "society", then of course not. But then again, like I've already stated, I'm inclined to support the legalization of cannabis. In other words, I don't think it should be "banned" either.

If you mean "we" as in "this forum", then you should remember that this site as whole is, for the most part, meant for people with mental health issues. This implies ethical concerns regarding the audience, as well as liability concerns regarding the owners.

Also note that, for the most part, only certain types of lack of sleep are a mild hallucinogen. This doesn't really mean much. Even without legality concerns to be taken into account, I wouldn't encourage sleep deprivation either (except maybe in very specific cases).
Fallen_Angel73
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 4215
Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 12:55 pm
Local time: Tue Sep 16, 2014 5:27 pm
Blog: View Blog (2)


ADVERTISEMENT

Re: Addicted to pot and obsessed.

Postby Grossenschwamm » Wed May 29, 2013 8:33 pm

shock_the_monkey wrote:you are indeed entitled to your opinion. but what we're talking about here is medical fact not opinion. there is something of an epidemic of people driving under the influence of such recreational drugs, precisely because they hold your rather over-liberal viewpoint. and if that isn't enough, cannabis is well known as a gateway drug to harder and more damaging drugs. it's a very real problem in society and one that is not helped by expressing the viewpoint that you hold. you are inciting people to break the law. not a good idea in my book under normal circumstances.

PS: i don't like to have to disagree with anyone about anything as strongly as this. and much of what i say is said fairly 'tonge in cheek' usually. but drug abuse does real harm to real people.


It's not a gateway drug. It's not a medical fact that use of cannabis leads to harder drugs - it is medical fact that people of above-average intelligence are prone to curiosity and experimentation due to the seeking of novel sensations.
This means people who are more intelligent than average are just as at risk for the use of any drug as they are for going bungee jumping.

The reason here is any study saying cannabis is a gateway to anything cites a correlation, which means cannabis is just as responsible for someone mainlining heroine as glasses are for making a person smarter.

I'm sure that, considering your use of the term "medical fact," you know that methamphetamine and cocaine are considered therapeutically valuable. Desoxyn, the legal and supremely pure form of crystal meth, is used as a last ditch effort to treat obesity, available by prescription.
Cocaine, in a 50% liquid solution, is used as a local anaesthetic and a vasoconstrictor, and it's the only known single substance that does both of those things at the same time.

Unlike the logic of the gateway drug studies, obesity is a gateway to meth, and dental surgery is a gateway to cocaine.
Grossenschwamm;
Better than chocolate.
User avatar
Grossenschwamm
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 883
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:32 am
Local time: Wed Sep 17, 2014 1:27 am
Blog: View Blog (2)

Re: Addicted to pot and obsessed.

Postby shock_the_monkey » Wed May 29, 2013 8:51 pm

Grossenschwamm wrote:I'm sure that, considering your use of the term "medical fact," you know that methamphetamine and cocaine are considered therapeutically valuable.

did you read my posts??? because if you did then you'd have read this ...

shock_the _monkey wrote:there are very clear medical findings on the use of cannabis. those that promote its use in all but the most severe of medical circumstances are flying in the face of those finding.
something knocked me out' the trees
now i'm on my knees
... don't you know you're gonna shock the monkey

there is one thing you must be sure of
i can't take any more
... don't you know you're gonna shock the monkey

don't like it but i guess i'm learning

... shock the monkey to life
User avatar
shock_the_monkey
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 2938
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:36 pm
Local time: Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:27 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Addicted to pot and obsessed.

Postby Grossenschwamm » Wed May 29, 2013 9:08 pm

shock_the_monkey wrote:there are very clear medical findings on the use of cannabis. those that promote its use in all but the most severe of medical circumstances are flying in the face of those finding.


This doesn't fly in the face of my own impressions of cannabis, but what it also doesn't do is prove cannabis is a gateway drug, which you had said quite directly after referencing medical fact. To add on, the medical uses of cannabinoids are pretty broad, ranging from THC killing brain tumors to cannabidol fighting psychosis, and the whole package combating nausea and intractable pain for people wasting away on chemo or with AIDS.

Another medical fact is that cannabis doesn't kill people. Alcohol and nicotine do - nicotine is more deadly than heroine. But they can be used recreationally, and in some cases this recreational use of nicotine or alcohol is in an attempt to self-medicate.
Grossenschwamm;
Better than chocolate.
User avatar
Grossenschwamm
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 883
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:32 am
Local time: Wed Sep 17, 2014 1:27 am
Blog: View Blog (2)

Re: Addicted to pot and obsessed.

Postby shock_the_monkey » Wed May 29, 2013 9:41 pm

Grossenschwamm wrote:This doesn't fly in the face of my own impressions of cannabis, but what it also doesn't do is prove cannabis is a gateway drug, which you had said quite directly after referencing medical fact. To add on, the medical uses of cannabinoids are pretty broad, ranging from THC killing brain tumors to cannabidol fighting psychosis, and the whole package combating nausea and intractable pain for people wasting away on chemo or with AIDS.

Another medical fact is that cannabis doesn't kill people. Alcohol and nicotine do - nicotine is more deadly than heroine. But they can be used recreationally, and in some cases this recreational use of nicotine or alcohol is in an attempt to self-medicate.

so, you're not reading what i wrote!!! never mind.
something knocked me out' the trees
now i'm on my knees
... don't you know you're gonna shock the monkey

there is one thing you must be sure of
i can't take any more
... don't you know you're gonna shock the monkey

don't like it but i guess i'm learning

... shock the monkey to life
User avatar
shock_the_monkey
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 2938
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:36 pm
Local time: Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:27 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Addicted to pot and obsessed.

Postby Grossenschwamm » Wed May 29, 2013 9:51 pm

This doesn't fly in the face of my own impressions of cannabis


As in, I'm not surprised at your opinion and it doesn't change mine. I cited medical uses and the use of tobacco and alcohol in an attempt to get you to question yourself, unless you find alcohol and tobacco morally reprehensible - in which case, you'd probably want all of it illegal.

In my defense, I read all of your posts within the past 3 days in this thread, and I simply disagree with you - as you apparently disagree with me.

I've read nearly everything I could find released over the past 20 years regarding cannabis, its properties and its dangers. I've certainly found what studies you referenced, as well as others with a less condemning tone - the problem with any propaganda is the holes in its logic, meaning both sides will talk out of their asses on occasion.

There's a big hint as to which side may be more correct;

If a corporation stands to make huge sums of money by preventing a change in laws, you can bet the law isn't there for the people.
Last edited by Grossenschwamm on Wed May 29, 2013 10:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: had to clarify earlier post
Grossenschwamm;
Better than chocolate.
User avatar
Grossenschwamm
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 883
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:32 am
Local time: Wed Sep 17, 2014 1:27 am
Blog: View Blog (2)

Re: Addicted to pot and obsessed.

Postby shock_the_monkey » Wed May 29, 2013 11:29 pm

Grossenschwamm wrote:
This doesn't fly in the face of my own impressions of cannabis


As in, I'm not surprised at your opinion and it doesn't change mine.

i'm not trying to change your opinion. i didn't even address any of my comments about this matter to you. you've just taken it upon yourself to nit pick. and i'm not interested.

for those that may actually want a balanced opinion, here is the NHS advice on the dangers of cannabis ...

http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/drugs/Pages/ ... ngers.aspx
something knocked me out' the trees
now i'm on my knees
... don't you know you're gonna shock the monkey

there is one thing you must be sure of
i can't take any more
... don't you know you're gonna shock the monkey

don't like it but i guess i'm learning

... shock the monkey to life
User avatar
shock_the_monkey
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 2938
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:36 pm
Local time: Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:27 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Addicted to pot and obsessed.

Postby Grossenschwamm » Thu May 30, 2013 4:34 am

shock_the_monkey wrote:...


I'd like to apologize to how I presented my response to you in this thread. I'd like to explain myself a bit - the issue struck home with me, and instead of going after the issue I put a personal spin on it.

I don't think substances have the ability to ruin people's lives, much as I don't think guns are nearly as dangerous as the people using them;

I'm unsure of your personal experience with substances or people who have abused them, but I know from my own experience that any time I did something destructive, it was my own mind, and my own chain of "logic" rationalizing what I was about to do. And I'd hate myself for it later. But I wasn't in trouble with cannabis - it was an artificial substitute for it that's just about as addictive as heroine and pretty dangerous, sometimes lethal.

Any time a person falls into a habit like that, they're trying to compensate for personal issues they haven't resolved in their own life, and that spiral is what kills them, or leaves them destitute - the substance is merely a vehicle.

Right now, I'm a person who has constant pain and fatigue, and I have trouble digesting food - I'd qualify for medical cannabis if I lived in the right state. Though I don't think cannabis is so harmful that it should only be relegated to medical use in extreme cases, especially when compared to the things that are already legal like alcohol and tobacco, or the things that are de-facto legal like what can be found in gas stations or novelty shops.

Again, I apologize for my rudeness, and I would hope I didn't damage what opinion you may have had for me too much. I'd also like to have this conversation civilly, if you trust me to do so.

The biggest problem for people using newer cannabis is that it does keep getting stronger - the same penalties apply to low grade as high grade, so breeding for street sale concentrates on a single active compound - the compound cited most for transient psychosis and awakening schizophrenic illness. But there's proof that a certain compound, cannabidiol, is an antipsychotic and a THC agonist, meaning it reduces the psychedelic effects of THC and can actually reduce anxiety, lowering effects on heart rate and blood pressure.

As far as breathing issues - it doesn't need to be inhaled. Honestly, any smoke put into a person's lungs is bad for them.

Cognitive side effects are shown to subside when use has stopped, unless use is chronic (read; near-constant and ceaseless) - which I'm assuming is a constant fog of apathy.

The other points, like not smoking during pregnancy (a fetus shouldn't be exposed to intoxicating plants, that's common sense) and causing cancer? Well, I obviously have a link for cancer. Also, cannabinoids were recently patented in the US, citing their use as anti-cancerous agents. They work on most forms, and can even reduce a risk of lung cancer.
Grossenschwamm;
Better than chocolate.
User avatar
Grossenschwamm
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 883
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:32 am
Local time: Wed Sep 17, 2014 1:27 am
Blog: View Blog (2)

Re: Addicted to pot and obsessed.

Postby shock_the_monkey » Thu May 30, 2013 12:00 pm

Grossenschwamm wrote:
shock_the_monkey wrote:...


I'd like to apologize to how I presented my response to you in this thread.

apology accepted.

for the record, here's my personal philosophy on life ...

truth is the foundation for justice, which is the foundation for freedom. so, above all else we should seek the truth, as this is our guiding star. but it should be understood that justice is for all. so, individual freedom is subservient to that justice such that all may enjoy those freedoms that don't impinge on the freedoms of others. spoke put this rather nicely when he said: the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one. and whilst people generally want to know the truth, they need justice to ensure their freedom.

... now, if we apply this to the subject at hand, it's clear that drug abuse does impinge on other peoples' lives. the NHS link i posted even eludes to the dangers of driving whilst under the influence of drugs. but there is more to this than just that. culturally, britain has for a long time had a rather socialist position on individual freedom. namely, that the state intervene in peoples' lives if society deem them behaving in a manner that is not only detrimental to others but also themselves. in the extreme, this is enshrined in the mental health act. and that is why i could not describe myself as a non-interventionist. american culture, by contrast, sees such social responsibility as an assault of individual freedom. they have an almost 'do whatever you like and society will pick up the pieces afterwards' approach to freedom. this, to me is a reversal of the natural order of truth, justice and freedom, such that freedom becomes the foundation for justice. and, to my mind, society as a whole, suffers as a consequence. now, that said, the world isn't a perfect place. and truth does not always get the priority it deserved, and alcohol and tobacco are a case in point. but we have to make the best of what we have. and one or two anomalies shouldn't imply that we should introduce more!

now, i hope you can understand from that what drives me. i'm a very typical brit in this respect.
something knocked me out' the trees
now i'm on my knees
... don't you know you're gonna shock the monkey

there is one thing you must be sure of
i can't take any more
... don't you know you're gonna shock the monkey

don't like it but i guess i'm learning

... shock the monkey to life
User avatar
shock_the_monkey
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 2938
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:36 pm
Local time: Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:27 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Addicted to pot and obsessed.

Postby Mellow » Thu May 30, 2013 6:43 pm

Sméagol wrote:My dad is saying that becuase I have aspergers he is sure that smoking marijuana could make me turn schizophrenic if I keep on smoking for a few more years. Is there any truth to do that statment?


I don't believe Aspergers specifically causes psychotic problems from taking marijuana, although you can get psychotic problems from it in general. I'm not sure on how it effects Aspergers.
Dx: Emotionally unstable personality disorder (BPD)
User avatar
Mellow
Consumer 5
Consumer 5
 
Posts: 127
Joined: Thu May 30, 2013 5:16 pm
Local time: Wed Sep 17, 2014 1:27 am
Blog: View Blog (2)

PreviousNext

Return to Asperger's Syndrome Forum




  • Related articles
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 93 guests

cron