Our partner

Offense or defense

Antisocial Personality Disorder message board, open discussion, and online support group.

Moderator: WichitaLineman

Forum rules
Attention Please. You are entering the ASPD forum. Please read this carefully.

Given the unique propensities of those who are faced with the issues of ASPD, topics at times may be uncomfortable for non ASPD readers. Discussions related to violent urges are permitted here, within the context of deeper understanding of the commonalties shared by members. Indulging these urges is not what regular users here are attempting to do.

Conversations here can be triggering for those who have suffered abuse or violent encounters. Respectful questioning is welcome from non ASPD members.

For those who have no respect for either this illness or for those who are living with it, please do not enter this forum. Discrimination of Personality Disorders is not tolerated on this site.

Moderators are present here to ensure that members treat each other with dignity and respect. If topics become overly graphic or drift from having a healthy perspective, moderators will intervene.
Please feel free to contact a moderator if you have any questions or concerns.

Best Regards,
The Team

Offense or defense

Postby Fallen_Angel73 » Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:03 am

Do you feel your antisocial behaviors/attitudes are plainly offensive, or more like forcefully and disproportionately defensive? Forget logic, the question is about subjective perception. Preemptive/paranoid defense counts as defensive.
Fallen_Angel73
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 4215
Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 12:55 pm
Local time: Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:45 pm
Blog: View Blog (2)


ADVERTISEMENT

Re: Offense or defense

Postby Mr. No One » Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:29 am

Forget logic? No. Is this a satisfactory answer? Was I being offensive or defensive? I mean if we are talking about the subjective there is no offense or defense when you are going with the flow doing whatever fairly apathetically especially if you are not thinking of consequences. The question is why not how in this case.
Mr. No One
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 3884
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 4:03 am
Local time: Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:45 am
Blog: View Blog (10)

Re: Offense or defense

Postby wooster » Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:40 am

Neither. Just indifference.
Either would imply some level of social involvement.

Not that I consciously display any antisocial behaviours, but it's never been my concern how my behaviour is interpreted by society.
"Oyyoy oy oy, accelerate ze protons!" (Eugene Hütz)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPDFkQbNbwk
User avatar
wooster
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 10741
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 12:00 pm
Local time: Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:45 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Offense or defense

Postby Greatem » Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:42 am

Offence is the best defense.
User avatar
Greatem
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 4413
Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 8:43 pm
Local time: Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:45 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Offense or defense

Postby Fallen_Angel73 » Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:45 am

Okay, I guess my definition of "offensive" needs to be further expanded in order to have a valid dichotomy. Actions/attitudes based on indifference (absence of intentions coupled with absence of sympathetic concerns) count as "offense" for the purposes of this question, assuming they are likely to be seen as overly aggressive by others.

In other words, if you don't feel like it's defensive, and it really is an antisocial attitude, then it counts as offensive.

Greatem wrote:Offence is the best defense.

So that's one for 'defense'.
Fallen_Angel73
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 4215
Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 12:55 pm
Local time: Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:45 pm
Blog: View Blog (2)

Re: Offense or defense

Postby wooster » Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:09 am

anagram wrote: Actions/attitudes based on indifference (absence of intentions coupled with absence of sympathetic concerns) count as "offense" for the purposes of this question, assuming they are likely to be seen as overly aggressive by others.

In other words, if you don't feel like it's defensive and it really is an antisocial attitude, it counts as offensive.


There might be a culture-based shift in people's definition of 'aggression'. For me, 'aggression' means the active violation of others' physical / mental / psychological / whatever personal boundaries, whereas apparently for some it means the lack of public displays of compassion / emotions etc.
I tend to blame the americanized mass-media for that.

The presence of sympathetic concern is better (more efficiently) conveyed through functional acts than through emotional displays.
"Oyyoy oy oy, accelerate ze protons!" (Eugene Hütz)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPDFkQbNbwk
User avatar
wooster
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 10741
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 12:00 pm
Local time: Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:45 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Offense or defense

Postby Fallen_Angel73 » Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:52 am

wooster wrote:The presence of sympathetic concern is better (more efficiently) conveyed through functional acts than through emotional displays.

Yes, this is the part where schizoid attitudes are seen as offensive. There's still the basic difference that schizoids are only ever offensive by omission or coldness. "Offense" is extremely subjective and culturally-dependent at this level. One defining feature, as opposed to ASPD, is that schizoids typically wish they would be treated the same way they treat others. Another one is that (by definition) they won't go out of their way to act in an antisocial way, even if they hold antisocial points of view.

"Canonical schizoids" at least. I'm diagnosed with SPD, but it's not my primary diagnosis. I fit the criteria but I don't fit the profile.
Fallen_Angel73
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 4215
Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 12:55 pm
Local time: Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:45 pm
Blog: View Blog (2)

Re: Offense or defense

Postby thebetterhalf » Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:40 am

im in general a quiet person until someone offends me which turns me instantously offensive and or agressive
Caution, dyslexic writer ahead.
Spell check please
User avatar
thebetterhalf
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 1847
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:20 am
Local time: Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:45 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Offense or defense

Postby crystal_richardson_ » Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:34 am

Greatem wrote:Offence is the best defense.


UUUUGHHH!! you bastard :lol: I was just going to say that......


anyway, I understand the question and so I'll answer:

I would say aspd is mostly offensive, pds which are more defensive would be like paranoid personality disorder
crystal_richardson_
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 18550
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:55 pm
Local time: Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:45 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Offense or defense

Postby Fallen_Angel73 » Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:58 am

crystal_richardson_ wrote:I would say aspd is mostly offensive, pds which are more defensive would be like paranoid personality disorder

This is certainly the expected profile. But the other day I was talking to a diagnosed ASPD, and when they mentioned to me the rationalizations behind their aggressive behavior, all of them were paranoid in nature. I did find it odd that they would be diagnosed as antisocial.

So I went ahead and checked the diagnostic criteria. There's only one item there about motivations. All the others are purely behavioral. Only three out of seven are required for the diagnosis. This is what led me to this question. And then I went ahead and checked the criteria for Dissocial PD (ICD manual). Strictly speaking, I think even I fit it. And I'm clearly no sociopath or psychopath.
Fallen_Angel73
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 4215
Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 12:55 pm
Local time: Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:45 pm
Blog: View Blog (2)

Next

Return to Antisocial Personality Disorder Forum




  • Related articles
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ashc, Cosmonaut, jipped, platonic, trophywife and 149 guests

cron