funky wrote:I can't remember, katana, beyond what I posted. Something about being unwilling to seek forgiveness or change, maybe? Or face up to themselves and their shame, and the harm that they cause, and subconsciously want to inflict.
I don't personally see how that makes them evil. To me it suggests their vulnerability and pain - and the defense mechanisms attached to that are "higher up" in the layers of personality, and the different capacity for emotion involved means significant pain for the narcissist in trying to confront those - pain which is intertwined with the narcissist's self-image, self-direction, actions & choices etc, not separated to an extent ?
Because if psychopaths can't feel emotions like true self-hate or shame, it means self-honesty and honest reflection are nowhere near as hard as they are for narcissists - in other words, a narcissist needs more inner strength to do those things than a psychopath does, and its not a surprise the narcissist will find it harder.
But on the subject of morality, I fail to understand people's reasoning for the definition of "evil". Looking at things from an outside perspective of cause and effect, the psychopath's pathology is rooted in one place, and the narcissist's in another.
If they want to define "evil" as actions harming another, all cluster Bs and most nons are evil, lol.
If they want to define it as the intent to harm another, some cluster Bs and some nons are evil some of the time.
If they define it as an "innate quality", they'll use it to argue psychopaths are evil, but if psychopaths are also damaged, even if they are more likely to become damaged because of "what they are" physiologically and genetically, then there are also environmental factors there...
But if evil is being unable to face up to themselves, sure, narcissists are evil, but then what narcissists do is just a massively overblown version of what many nons do with their own little issues.
A good example of this issue is "evil". Nons use the term evil
because they are afraid of something, and instead of being able to accept the simple truth that what happens to the narcissist is what happens to the non in tiny ways except on a much bigger scale because the narcissist has suffered a lot more damage. From an outside perspective that looks very much like ignorant hypocrisy and ethnocentrism.
- And a way of nons distancing themselves from the narcissist. There is some literature about that happening with staff dealing with people with PD for example, and how that can damage their recovery process.
Its also just straightforward fear - people fear what they can't explain or understand, and instead of trying to understand it, most of them feel safer by grouping together and shouting "evil!!". Making something taboo gets everyone else behind them = protection.
In modern, educated people, I would have thought there should be shame in that attitude because they think themselves better than that, but they do exactly the same thing the narcissist does and hang onto their concept of "evil" instead!
I remember there was a thread likening pwBPD to scorpions. People are afraid of touching scorpions, but they don't call them evil - because they understand them. What they are, why their stings are dangerous, how and if they can be treated, what not to do with them. They're afraid of being stung, but they're just careful not to.
The way I see it, if some people experience things which cause them to become damaged in some way so they develop stings in their tails, "evil" is just another primative (and now useless) social defense that people use to group together and protect themselves.
Ironically, it leads to people taking immoral actions for the sake of the group. (could be described as "evil".) After all its a major part of the same driving force that makes things like oppressive regimes possible without the majority revolting, including the Nazi regime.
Should I become an ethnocentrist too ? "They can't snap out of it, if they're trying to evolve they should ######6 well hurry up. They're both stupid and hypocritical."
- I don't understand them, they must be evil!!! lol. Quick, kill em all
The DSM let me off on a technicality.