Ask a Mental Health Expert
12 Mental Health Experts are Online Now.
A Question is Answered Every 11 seconds!
Ask an Expert >









Our partner

Nomadic Antisocial

Antisocial Personality Disorder message board, open discussion, and online support group.

Moderators: WichitaLineman, Ada, Otter

Forum rules
Attention Please. You are entering the ASPD forum. Please read this carefully.

Given the unique propensities of those who are faced with the issues of ASPD, topics at times may be uncomfortable for non ASPD readers. Discussions related to violent urges are permitted here, within the context of deeper understanding of the commonalties shared by members. Indulging these urges is not what regular users here are attempting to do.

Conversations here can be triggering for those who have suffered abuse or violent encounters. Respectful questioning is welcome from non ASPD members.

For those who have no respect for either this illness or for those who are living with it, please do not enter this forum. Discrimination of Personality Disorders is not tolerated on this site.

Moderators are present here to ensure that members treat each other with dignity and respect. If topics become overly graphic or drift from having a healthy perspective, moderators will intervene.
Please feel free to contact a moderator if you have any questions or concerns.

Best Regards,
The Team

Nomadic Antisocial

Postby CaptainAwesome » Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:56 pm

++edited by mod at request of the poster++
CaptainAwesome
Consumer 2
Consumer 2
 
Posts: 51
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:23 pm
Local time: Sun Feb 07, 2016 5:17 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)


ADVERTISEMENT

Re: Nomadic Antisocial

Postby Hucal » Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:28 pm

You are referring to the Millon subtype that has a mix with schizoid and avoidant features, yes? I imagine they are a sociopath that basically doesn't get his/her kicks out of spending a lot of time with people... they probably hate people and avoid spending as much time around others as possible. They most likely find others obnoxious and over-emotional, and think interaction with them is a waste of time. When they do have to interact with people, they are cold/aloof, and I wouldn't be surprised if they did not hide their distaste from others.

Just making a guess based on the traits of both, because I have no idea. I was combining sociopathy and schizoid for that example. I wouldn't really know how to explain a sociopath with avoidant traits... to me, they seem like contradictory disorders in a lot of ways. AvPD'ers have low self-esteem, feel socially awkward, self-loathe, self-critical, etc., and I feel like a lot of sociopaths do not usually express themselves in such a way that makes them look weak and timid. I'm sure there are exceptions, though.
Last edited by Hucal on Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
22 year old male
Dx: Bipolar NOS
Hucal
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 258
Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 8:38 pm
Local time: Sun Feb 07, 2016 9:17 am
Blog: View Blog (1)

Re: Nomadic Antisocial

Postby CaptainAwesome » Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:40 pm

++edited by mod at request of the poster++
CaptainAwesome
Consumer 2
Consumer 2
 
Posts: 51
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:23 pm
Local time: Sun Feb 07, 2016 5:17 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Nomadic Antisocial

Postby Maupertuis » Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:24 am

Even though I'm not nomadic because I'm stuck here in this house, this antisocial subtype describes me fairly well and I'd prefer a nomadic life if given the chance of one, rather than have to put up with oter people. Perhaps the differences separating me from the stereotype of the nomadic, socipathic criminal are because I have strong Factor 1 as well as Factor 2 traits? But although I'm withdrawn, I don't exactly have the personality traits that are associated with either the schizoid or avoidant disorders such as emotional attachments to the people I live with and use. But their world never rejected me, it was I who rejeted it.
Maupertuis
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 701
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:06 am
Local time: Sun Feb 07, 2016 5:17 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Nomadic Antisocial

Postby Platypus » Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:42 am

I'm a sort of nomad. I relate strongly to Millon's "Remote Schizoid" subtype, but nomadism and this subtype does not seem to be commonly discussed on the Schizoid forum. I guess the stereotypical Remote Schizoid and Nomadic Antisocial are likely to be homeless and not have regular access to the internet! (Maybe they are also two types that are more likely to be low-functioning and less likely to seek help?)

I also feel this way:
Maupertuis wrote:But their world never rejected me, it was I who rejeted it.
No diagnosis, lots of opinions, and a bunch of issues that I haven't quite figured out.
User avatar
Platypus
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 6868
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:26 am
Local time: Mon Feb 08, 2016 3:17 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Nomadic Antisocial

Postby Maupertuis » Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:20 am

A schizoid diagnosis requires four or more of the following from the DSM-IV in America.

1. Neither desires nor enjoys close relationships, including being part of a family
2. Almost always chooses solitary activities
3. Has little, if any, interest in having sexual experiences with another person
4. Takes pleasure in few, if any, activities
5. Lacks close friends or confidants other than first-degree relatives
6. Appears indifferent to the praise or criticism of others
7. Shows emotional coldness, detachment, or flattened affect

In England it also requires meeting four or more of these criteria.

1. Emotional coldness, detachment or reduced affect.
2. Limited capacity to express either positive or negative emotions towards others.
3. Consistent preference for solitary activities.
4. Very few, if any, close friends or relationships, and a lack of desire for such.
5. Indifference to either praise or criticism.
6. Taking pleasure in few, if any, activities.
7. Indifference to social norms and conventions.
8. Preoccupation with fantasy and introspection.
9. Lack of desire for sexual experiences with another person.

Again in Europe a diagnosis of avoidant requires that someone meets at least four items from out of a list.

1. Persistent and pervasive feelings of tension and apprehension;
2. Belief that one is socially inept, personally unappealing, or inferior to others;
3. Excessive preoccupation with being criticized or rejected in social situations;
4. Unwillingness to become involved with people unless certain of being liked;
5. Restrictions in lifestyle because of need to have physical security;
6. Avoidance of social or occupational activities that involve significant interpersonal contact because of fear of criticism, disapproval, or rejection.

Guess how many you need from this list to be diagnosed in America?

1. Avoids occupational activities that involve significant interpersonal contact, because of fears of criticism, disapproval, or rejection
2. Is unwilling to get involved with people unless certain of being liked
3. Shows restraint within intimate relationships because of the fear of being shamed or ridiculed
4. Is preoccupied with being criticized or rejected in social situations
5. Is inhibited in new interpersonal situations because of feelings of inadequacy
6. Views self as socially inept, personally unappealing, or inferior to others
7. Is unusually reluctant to take personal risks or to engage in any new activities because they may prove embarrassing

So I do have obvious schizoid traits, but not avoidant ones other than a need for physical security.
Maupertuis
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 701
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:06 am
Local time: Sun Feb 07, 2016 5:17 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Nomadic Antisocial

Postby Platypus » Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:38 am

I don't relate to any of the above AvPD traits...except maybe the one you bolded Maupertuis, but what is meant by "physical security?" My lifestyle is restricted, but I see my motivation for doing that as my need for independence and my 'committmentphobia'. (I feel trapped by property ownership, lease agreements etc.)

I don't know if the features (e.g. Avoidant features) in Millon's subtype are meant to refer to the diagnostic traits of that personality disorder. That was not how I interpreted it anyway.
No diagnosis, lots of opinions, and a bunch of issues that I haven't quite figured out.
User avatar
Platypus
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 6868
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:26 am
Local time: Mon Feb 08, 2016 3:17 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Nomadic Antisocial

Postby Smiles » Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:37 am

I'm geographically nomadic, not mentally (I don't think). I don't feel rejected by anyone because I don't show them anything to reject. I just have habits that require me to relocate somewhat often for my own protection.
Smiles
Consumer 1
Consumer 1
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:30 am
Local time: Sun Feb 07, 2016 6:17 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Nomadic Antisocial

Postby creative_nothing » Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:20 pm

Hucal wrote:Just making a guess based on the traits of both, because I have no idea. I was combining sociopathy and schizoid for that example. I wouldn't really know how to explain a sociopath with avoidant traits... to me, they seem like contradictory disorders in a lot of ways. AvPD'ers have low self-esteem, feel socially awkward, self-loathe, self-critical, etc., and I feel like a lot of sociopaths do not usually express themselves in such a way that makes them look weak and timid. I'm sure there are exceptions, though.

Bumping this thread.

I remember reading a while ago a concept like intrinsic and extrinsic self esteem and how it is related to narcissism.

I guess if this theory is right antisocials and narcissists have high intrinsic self esteem meaning that they feel that they are capable of great things.

Now extrinsic self-esteem should mean something like how society view you, or more specifically how well you believe society sees you. In that theory avoidant PD is basically extremelly low extrinsic self-esteem.

If you combine these concepts things are not contradictory. I guess if there is one personality that is the oposite of antisocial PD it would be the dependent PD who unlike the avoidant feel they are completelly uncapable of doing anything by them selves.

So if I had to sum it up it would be.
Antisocial/Narcissitic: High Intrinsic, Extrinsic N/A
Avoidant/Schizoid/Schizotypal/Paranoid: Intrinsic N/A, Low Extrinsic
Dependent: Intrinsic Low, N/A Extrinsic
Histrionic?: Intrinsic N/A, Extrinsic High
Histrionic is the Opposite of Schizoid*
Antisocial is the Opposite of Dependent

Does anybody have resources regading this two types of self-esteem and the relationshio to narcissism?
Dx. GAD
Schizotypy is like drugs: You get good ruminations and bad ruminations
User avatar
creative_nothing
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 4867
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:46 pm
Local time: Sun Feb 07, 2016 2:17 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Nomadic Antisocial

Postby Ubinix800 » Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:57 pm

This is how Millon describes them:

Although the most widely held impression is that antisocials are incorrigible criminals
who undermine the values of the surrounding culture, some seek simply to run away
from a society in which they feel unwanted, cast aside, or abandoned. Although most
antisocials react antagonistically to social rejection, these individuals drift along at the
margins of society, scavenging whatever slim resources they come across. The nomadic
variant combines antisocial with schizoid and/or avoidant characteristics. Most see
themselves as jinxed or doomed and desire only to exist at the edge of a world that
would almost certainly reject them. Mired in self-pity, they drop out of society to become
gypsy-like roamers, vagabonds, or wanderers. With little regard for their personal
safety or comfort, they may drift from one setting to another as homeless persons involved
in prostitution and substance abuse.
Adopted children who feel uneasy about their place in the world sometimes follow
the path of the nomadic antisocial, wandering from place to place in an apparently symbolic
search for their true home or natural parents. Their sense of “being no place” signifies
alienation from self and others. For this reason, nomadics often appear vaguely
disconnected from reality and lack any clear sense of self-identity. Compared to other
variants, nomadic antisocials often seem relatively harmless because of their attitude of
indifference and disengagement. Some are indeed vacant and fearful, but others are
deeply angry and resentful. As a consequence of alcohol or substance abuse, they may act out impulsively, discharging their frustrations in brutal assaults or sexual attacks on those weaker than themselves.


To me, these people sound like "roaming conmen". The ones who travel in caravans (or come to your door) trying to sell you some 'special item' for and extortionate price, claiming that you're "getting a good deal" and how it's worth more than they're selling it for, despite this never actually being the case. Then once you've bought it and you're out of sight, they will quickly leave and set up shop somewhere far away from that location and try the same tactic on their next victim, always off the grid and out of site from any police. It doesn't matter if they have Schizoid or Avoidant features because their interactions with people are so brief and impersonal that there is no risk for them forming any sort of emotional connection, regardless of whether or not they secretly want any (AvPD vs. SPD). Then they make off with your cash and use it to survive off. Chances are they wouldn't even be able to look you in the eye when they're conning you because they have little confidence in what they do, backing off when they think you're on to them.

Just speculating.
Ubinix800
Consumer 0
Consumer 0
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2015 3:35 pm
Local time: Sun Feb 07, 2016 5:17 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Next

Return to Antisocial Personality Disorder Forum




  • Related articles
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Derek21, Harpsichord, MrSigma, MSNbot Media, PamelaHic and 141 guests

cron