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How Do You Feel About Authority Figures

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Re: How Do You Feel About Authority Figures

Postby Sixoclock0 » Fri May 19, 2017 11:13 am

Courtier wrote:You are missing the point. I'm not talking about me. I'm talking about people who have legitimate power over things you want. Authority are those who are in charge and it so happens that they have something that we need to go through them to get.

Oh there was certain sharpness that had me thinking you largely reflected specifically on your own values and intent. You did.
It's still earned, a good psychiatrist or supervisor has internalized this. It may even benefit them, for example, in sharing responsibilities. The trust element generally increases happiness when dictatorship is bound to fall. And thieves don't have authority.
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Re: How Do You Feel About Authority Figures

Postby justonemoreperson » Fri May 19, 2017 1:08 pm

SweetSlumber wrote: If they were to take those problems away, they would be left without a job. It's perfectly logical.


Except that most reliable therapists are judged on their success, not their hours of business. Many write articles about breakthroughs and successful patients (anonymously), and so in many cases it's in their interest to be successful and to find new ways to treat different conditions.

What you say might be true to an extent but it's not a blanket statement that can be applied to all or the majority.
I'm not arguing, I'm simply explaining why I'm right.
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Re: How Do You Feel About Authority Figures

Postby SweetSlumber » Fri May 19, 2017 2:25 pm

Well I don't know any reliable therapists, and the anonymous success stories might as well be fake. So there.
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Re: How Do You Feel About Authority Figures

Postby Wannabe » Fri May 19, 2017 3:39 pm

I only recognise authority in professions, so the opinions of teachers and experts have some value to me.

ExecutIve authority figures however, can suck my D. I don't believe anyone has the right to tell me what to do. I comply if it's the only acceptable alternative, as would anyone that values their career prospects.
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Re: How Do You Feel About Authority Figures

Postby justonemoreperson » Fri May 19, 2017 4:26 pm

Wannabe wrote:ExecutIve authority figures however, can suck my D. I don't believe anyone has the right to tell me what to do. I comply if it's the only acceptable alternative, as would anyone that values their career prospects.


Executives have the right because they represent the organisation that pays you. You are basically selling your time to them to do a job the way they instruct. They're not controlling "you" only the part of "you" that you agreed to rent to the company.

You decide to accept that authority when you take on the job, so it's always your choice. If you refuse to accept the authority of the executives then all you're really doing is breaking a contract you agreed to sign.

Refusing to accept the authority of an executive doesn't make you a rebel; it just makes you a bit stupid.
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Re: How Do You Feel About Authority Figures

Postby fiveintime » Fri May 19, 2017 5:55 pm

justonemoreperson wrote:Executives have the right because they represent the organisation that pays you. You are basically selling your time to them to do a job the way they instruct. They're not controlling "you" only the part of "you" that you agreed to rent to the company.

You decide to accept that authority when you take on the job, so it's always your choice. If you refuse to accept the authority of the executives then all you're really doing is breaking a contract you agreed to sign.

Refusing to accept the authority of an executive doesn't make you a rebel; it just makes you a bit stupid.


That's a good way to look at it, and frankly, a lot better than I usually do with work dynamics.

I feel a lot of hostility towards people in positions of authority (especially when dealing with them), this includes police officers, doctors, psychologists and even my mother when she's trying to tell me how to live my life (I know she's only doing it because she cares, but it still pisses me off. I'm an adult now. I don't need anyone telling me how to live my life).


I feel like most of those people actually work for us. We hire (via tax dollars) police, so we don't have to deal with quite as much day-to-day crime and we hire doctors and psychologists to help with health.

I mean, I get it. I was in the military, where people assumed rank = authority = deserves respect, which to me, is not how it works. Some leadership appreciates an autonomous, self-driven worker; some, mostly the ones who are insecure in their own authority, don't. I'm the former, which had caused several bumps in the road, but, overall, I think has been a distinctly good thing for my career.

I have a coach, and was just talking with him the other day about our relationship. I pay him for his coaching, so, in that sense, he works for me. He's a hired expert, and I could stop paying him, and end the working relationship. But, when he's coaching me, I do exactly what he says. I learned a long time ago, that, as an athlete, getting coaching and also trying to self-manage at the same time doesn't work. If you expect it to work, you have to let go and let them lead. If it doesn't work (given a long enough time and appropriate effort on your part), they're probably not the right one for you.

It's kind of the same deal for doctors, psychologists, and even in a sense, leadership in a corporation.
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Re: How Do You Feel About Authority Figures

Postby crystal_richardson_ » Fri May 19, 2017 6:05 pm

na, i don't think so.

first, all land is owned by the state or private companies, that makes all of us serfs by default, which means we have to earn our keep from one of these entities. we cannot just go pick fruit from a tree or build shelter and grow crops on any old land.

so yes, we 'agree' to give our time to someone for a fee, but it's hardly a choice in that we have no other option if we wish to survive.

well, other than stealing.

we can also start a business and simply switch up the roles - though we never cease being a serf to someone - but that takes money which means we inevitably must work for someone unless we were born into a particular inheritance (and even then we are confined by the conditions of that money and possibly myriad other loops) and thus it is not a true 'agreement' because a true agreement requires that you freely enter the contract when in reality it is not a choice.

this was my grudge during the little time i did spend in employment. i hated the entire feudal system and felt like i wasn't choosing to work for someone but i had to and i saw them - those who put me in the situation, the 'landlords' - as the cause and so i felt absolutely no obligation to any employer and would regularly walk off the job or do a deliberately sh*t or very slow (like taking an hour to do something that other employees took 5 minutes) job.

as you can imagine i didn't last long so i took up a different trade :)

-- Fri May 19, 2017 6:14 pm --

ironically, i am more likely to respect a truly authoritarian style of leading because when someone leads in this style it tells me that i am dealing with 'the top' rather than some middleman who protecting the hiding, scheming 'top' on the ground level with pretentious niceties and veiled threats.

i like honest power. and i like dealing with the 'the top' - meaning the person who is the buffer between me and nature itself. not some substrata of a complex impersonal government.

this is why i've entertained 'primitive' agricultural systems in the past - not feudal systems though. that is, where you work within a family or with your neighbor under the authority of older, more wise people. you can see why they have authority and how your survival depends on it.

also, authority and capitalism don't mix. greed + authority is inherently 'abusive' and constitutes exploitation.

nonabusive power is authoritarian but nobody is benefiting more by being in the position of power. that's why it's desirable. they are in the position of power because they are wiser - it's merited. and while they don't gain anything from having that extra responsibility, the extra responsibility is also not significant. it's not like they have to work any harder, just enforce the system so extra compensation isn't required.
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Re: How Do You Feel About Authority Figures

Postby fiveintime » Fri May 19, 2017 6:21 pm

crystal_richardson_ wrote:na, i don't think so.

first, all land is owned by the state or private companies, that makes all of us serfs by default, which means we have to earn our keep from one of these entities. we cannot just go pick fruit from a tree or build shelter and grow crops on any old land.

so yes, we 'agree' to give our time to someone for a fee, but it's hardly a choice in that we have no other option if we wish to survive.


People still do that. I mean, to do it legally, you have to trade something of value with the rest of the world (a little bit of work) so you can buy that initial piece of land, because you're right that we don't own our land unless we establish a defense force and our own country. But, there are still people who make a trivial initial investment, then choose to drop off the grid and live by their own means.

Most people don't do this because they don't want to, not because it's not an option. Likewise, people work for employers because they don't want to do everything that's required to run a business. Convenience fees aren't enslavement.
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Re: How Do You Feel About Authority Figures

Postby crystal_richardson_ » Fri May 19, 2017 6:24 pm

its difficult to do that and unrealistic unless you were born in a hole. it's not a matter of not putting your money where your mouth is, or really being a sucker for convenience, we are born into a particular culture and develop a self-concept and relationship with the world. our friends, family...it is not a simple choice to 'go off the grid' - it amounts to self-death or schizophrenia or very introverted.

we are social beings offer all from birth. these things are not strictly choices even if in a cultural experiment they would be better.

anyway, didn't intend to make theoretical, just illustrated the complexity of choices.

-- Fri May 19, 2017 6:30 pm --

fiveintime wrote:Most people don't do this because they don't want to, not because it's not an option. Likewise, people work for employers because they don't want to do everything that's required to run a business. Convenience fees aren't enslavement.


no, they don't do it because nobody else is and because they've been taught it's wrong or backward or pick your pejorative. it would require an abandonment of their identity and the establishment of entirely different social group, something that esteems that way of life and has enough inputs to actually make it flourish. it can't do it alone or even in a small group.

and people don't start their own businesses because they don't have the means. inconvenience is not a small point.

let's switch the tables. there are people born in farms or in farming communities with everything they need. they do not go to mainstream schools (or just go to fullful the national requirement) and farming and living that life is mostly all they know. it's hard work but it's still convenient and their identities are based on it from birth. they would find working in office, or 'job hunting' probably stressful and inconvenient beyond imagination - although some are forced to if they pushed off their lands.
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Re: How Do You Feel About Authority Figures

Postby Eight » Fri May 19, 2017 6:37 pm

Most choice options are pared down to reasonable choices - then a choice is made from amongst the reasonable ones. Doesn't mean the unreasonable ones aren't also considered first -- they're just eliminated as they don't fit whatever the goal is.

You seem to consider a choice only a choice if it isn't limited in your definition of 'free choice'.

I think that's somewhat naive and not really workable.

Most people don't want to go off the grid and be able to roam over free open land and take from it as they wish. That nomadic lifestyle is hard, unpredictable and tends to squeeze out lots of other possibilities for usage of one's time.

You say that is serfdom or slavery or being sucked into society's system.

Ok. So? Most people are fine with that, as long as, within that system, they have sufficient autonomy to do things mostly as they wish. They aren't looking for ultimate autonomy.

Neither are you, I expect, though you enjoy theorizing on it. Otherwise, you wouldn't have sold yourself to your boyfriend and be utterly dependent upon him for money, roof over your head, drugs, social integration, companionship, etc.
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