Successful Psychopaths - How Do They Do It?

If you're not wealthy, then so are you. I get approximately $650 a week tax free for doing nothing.

It may not be as much money as some people get, but I'm certainly not complaining.

I do not know why you think it matters if this applies to me too. Ofc it does.

Everybody lacks those for the career they want until they do the appropriate studying and training,

My point exactly?

Nothing wrong with venting anger on an AsPD forum. This is the place where we should be able to vent it.

Hmmm...you been doing that for years DS...and same same...no change...nada...

Have you considered doing a psych degree online? Plenty of universities offer that...you are pretty good at it....when you are not projecting.

Not all psychopaths are alike. Remember, it's just a colloquial term for callous, flat, self-serving, manipulative people. Some psychopaths have great impulse control and foresight, while others spend their weekends in jail every other week.

Your might aswell ask why are some cars hatchbacks if yours is a sedan, if that is the logic you deem fit for psychiatric discussions.

There are high functioning and low functioning psychopaths. The one I knew had a rigid family structure that forced and expected him to excel. They sent him to the best schools so he had ample opportunity and also he was very smart and moved through the system quickly and into a financial career seamlessly. Once into that career I think he learned the true value of his charm and at first became a day trader, for the adrenaline rush, and then to more stable organizations where he could smell the money. When he got his hands on it I think it was such a high that the greed took over and also the lust for control. Those factors push him on and up the ladder he goes. If they are smart, they can control or hide carefully, their true nature or keep it outside their work environment so no one will find out. The one I knew disclosed very little about his outside life. His wife was never allowed to come see him at work (how convenient), and he had very few people around him he treated like "friends". Even his best buddy at work was just a bro acquaintance. Very superficial. I think his theory was to use people as stepping stones (through charm), but never become loyal to anyone (because of course he couldn't) and that allowed him the freedom to slash and burn everyone around him as he saw fit. He wasn't in business to make friends or to have a long career but rather to get in quickly, make the money, and retire early. He's only 33 and he says he can already retire (who knows if that is true) but he wants far more money and power than that so he's sticking around I suspect for another 10 years at least. Who knows how many organizations he can destroy in that time.

wasabi, while i think you have decent intuition and judgement when it comes to identifying psychos, i don't think the one you encountered was a psycho...

he sounds like a narc from his family structure to his mannerisms and motivations.

psychopaths are not driven to excel, they don't care about achievement like you describe.

narcs can act very much like psychos in the service of their ambition, but they lack the indifference psychos have to socially valued goals.

when psychos do achieve it's coincidence. but psychopaths have no self-esteem (literally), so they are not effected by how people see them.

narcs have high but fragile self-esteem and so get totally high off 'being the best', winning, achievements, etc.

psychos are more 'primitive' in their desires. they just want money, sex, etc, and the easiest way possible.

like what did your guy do on his spare time? did he indulge? or was he all about his image or work?

if the latter...doubt he was a psycho.

also your post suggests you're getting information from what HE said to you, and in fact you make statements as if they are facts and then in the next sentence say how HE said it and who knows if it's true...

He wasn't in business to make friends or to have a long career but rather to get in quickly, make the money, and retire early. He's only 33 and he says he can already retire (who knows if that is true)

but he wants far more money and power than that so he's sticking around I suspect for another 10 years at least. Who knows how many organizations he can destroy in that time.

does he have a life? what does he do? psychopaths enjoy themselves. it's not all work and making the right contacts, even during 'off time'.

psychopaths recklessly pursue their pleasure...like what is your guy really about? nothing you're saying shows psychopathy. it just sounds like an ambitious dude with no life/bad life balance because he's so preoccupied with his ambition...that's not psychopathy

PSYCHOPATHS ARE NOT NARCS

do you know what a narcissist is? in all your research do you ever compare a narc and a psychopath?

how is your guy a psych vs a narc?

-- Mon Aug 31, 2015 6:17 am --

i am even hesitant to call your guy a narcissist....like NPD....if all he does is 'destroy organizations'

organizations are competitive arenas...they are meant to be destroyed...

the stable traditional organization is a thing of the past now...the nature of business has changed....it's called 'flexible accumulation' - do you know what i'm talking about?

so organizations are meant to be destroyed by their players...and new ones made

yes, this can cause people great distress and hurt people but the current system is designed for this sort of business....because it's conducive to making the most profit

job security is gone. that's just a fact and norm of life. hardly anyone even presupposes it anymore.

so while your guy while he might be using people in a disposable way, he is just doing his job

Crystal I've listened to your arguments before that this guy isn't a psychopath but you aren't the last word in the diagnosis, nor did you know him.
He was not in control of his family structure. They are a high achieving Pakistani family and all the children are expected to excel. He mentioned to me that he was very bad in his youth (without specifying how).

crystal_richardson_ wrote:psychopaths are not driven to excel, they don't care about achievement like you describe.

I would disagree with you. I believe in Dr. Hare's and Paul Babiak's findings in Snakes In Suits. These men and others who've written books on corporate psychopathy have far more knowledge of the profile than you do. I've seen it with my own eyes and I'm not sure why you seem to have a vested interest in proving corporate P's don't exist. TTT who used to be on this forum discussed it with me at length and revealed that he was successful in business. Again who knows if that's the truth but I assume he wouldn't have any reason to lie about it. What would be the point?
No P's don't care about achievement...they care about money and power and achievement allows both. I wouldn't even say my P achieved...he bulldozed, he charmed, he pulled strings, lied, schemed, turned people against each other, picked people up and made them indebted to him in some way and then placed them around himself for protection. He isolated his closest workers, I was one, and demanded secrecy. Triangulated, was mean spirited, would insinuate veiled threats with a smile on his face. There isn't one thing he did that was out of character for a high functioning P.

crystal_richardson_ wrote:psychopaths have no self-esteem (literally), so they are not effected by how people see them.

So you're saying P's have no ego or aren't grandiose with their self worth? Read the PCL-R again. Mine did not care who approved of him socially. He'd rather fly beneath the radar if he could get what he wanted easier. But in big business there is a certain facade that has to be maintained and this P was also quite attractive and wanted women to notice so yes there were narc tendencies, but those often go hand in hand with P. He held the belief he was superior, that others just lacked initiative and intelligence. He acted bold and fearless and very much the predator. Though he charmed and smiled there was a ruthless side that I got to see. He was deadly serious if you crossed him and he'd get back to you to finish you off one way or another.

crystal_richardson_ wrote:narcs have high but fragile self-esteem

This guys self-esteem was in no way fragile. Oh he liked sucking up the narc supply but he wasn't bothered if you didn't offer it up. He wasn't concerned if you bought what he was selling or not. If he figured out the charm didn't work on you he'd just find another way in that was more blunt.

crystal_richardson_ wrote:like what did your guy do on his spare time? did he indulge? or was he all about his image or work?

Expensive meals, snowboarding, light drug use, buying expensive toys for himself, Italian clothing, mnt. biking...I'm sure promiscuity even though he was newly married. He liked putting that vibe out to every woman in the room. Crystal I'm not here to answer 20 questions once again. I've explained this in my past posts. It doesn't matter to me if you believe my diagnosis...I know what I dealt with. I have also dated a couple narcs in my past and know what those creatures are as well. Compared to a P they are nothing. Narcs are just clowns in comparison. Problematic yes but not life shattering.

what did he ever actually do that was destructive and harmful to you or others?

-- Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:17 am --

Wasabi5050 wrote:I wouldn't even say my P achieved...he bulldozed, he charmed, he pulled strings, lied, schemed, turned people against each other, picked people up and made them indebted to him in some way and then placed them around himself for protection. He isolated his closest workers, I was one, and demanded secrecy. Triangulated, was mean spirited, would insinuate veiled threats with a smile on his face. There isn't one thing he did that was out of character for a high functioning P.

while he sounds like an unpleasant person to work with, this isn't psychopathy.

i never said I disbelieve in the corporate psychopath altogether, but an example of one would be moreso along the lines of bernie madoff.

Hare's books and all those other guys...honestly anyone can fit those descriptions.

they are written for a popular readership.

in terms of Hare's work, I personally would look at it as two strains.

on the one hand is Hare's work as a result of him working in prisons and so forth, and his research there which he publishes in criminal psychology journals, etc,

and then there are the books he writes for popular reading...where he stretches his concept of psychopathy to include a much broader character to appeal to a broader audience

so, yes, while he is a professional in the area, not all of his work is professional...if you know what i mean

crystal_richardson_ wrote:Hare's books and all those other guys...honestly anyone can fit those descriptions.

No not everyone can fit those descriptions. I think you've looked at psychopathy so long you can't see it anymore. Once you figure out the patterns they use, they are obvious. Hell...even before I knew what I was looking at with this guy I saw red flags all around him. Intuitively I knew he wasn't functioning normally and things weren't quite right. He'd tell me one thing but show me another. He doesn't have to pull out a knife and hack people up to prove he's a P. If he did that he'd ruin his chance at bigger reward. No his plans were to move quickly to the top, axing peoples jobs as he went who challenged him, get the pay off (which he is getting right now),then move on to bigger fish. All he had to do was hold it together long enough to make that happen...and he has.

I'm sure it's been hard for him to restrain himself and I saw the cracks at times. He had about 6 different vendettas going at once with his peers and that "get even" motivation kept him moving forward. If you met this guy...in the first 30 minutes you'd back up and look for an exit. It wasn't just the slick,bold, and super charming (weasel) presentation, but once you detected there was a high intelligence there you knew you were screwed. No, I've worked with professionals my whole life. I know what "business tactics" look like. I understand hard decisions have to be made and there is a right and wrong way to do that. I think those who make those hard decisions, if done humanely, should get a big pay off. True current corporations are horrid places where money trumps everything, but that doesn't mean you can't do your job and allow for the human equation. That is a sign of a great leader, not just a blundering manager. This guy fell into the blundering manager category but he had done his groundwork with the higher ups and sealed the deal. They just wanted some little wolf to come in and make them money without them having to lift a finger. In return they'd give him control. They are now wrestling with that decision. He owns them now and they are his puppets.

crystal_richardson_ wrote:n the one hand is Hare's work as a result of him working in prisons and so forth, and his research there which he publishes in criminal psychology journals, etc,

and then there are the books he writes for popular reading...where he stretches his concept of psychopathy to include a much broader character to appeal to a broader audience

So you're saying his work is valid toward prison populations but not in the world at large? Do you know how absurd that sounds? You're saying that psychopathy only exists in criminal populations and if someone isn't bad enough to get incarcerated then they aren't bad enough to be a P. Humans are a herd of animals and some get caught and caged for their deeds and others don't. If a P is reward driven then he will go where the money and reward is. Not all of them are gutter punks who can't hold a job or who sponge off their poor girlfriends and are drug addicted. Also...Bernie Madoff...who did he kill? Oh yes he just ruined people financially...hardly counts right? If you accept that Bernie is a P then you acknowledge they exist. For some reason you just don't like the idea I worked for one. Pretty odd!!!
Hare wasn't in this game to sell books. He worked for many years in research before Snakes in Suits came along. He didn't just come up with a concept and say "hey, let's put some false info. out there and disguise it as science and sell it to the public. No that's what a psychopath would do.