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M A N I P U L A T I O N

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M A N I P U L A T I O N

Postby GoodSamaritan » Thu Jun 18, 2015 12:17 pm

Hey kids - back again.

I've noticed that interpersonal 'manipulation' or 'manipulative behaviour', seems to be commonly seen as one of the signs or symptoms of ASPD, NPD and other cluster B personalities.

I take issue with what I believe is the common notion of manipulation - behaviour that 'controls' another, or is intended to control another - (is my take on how mainstream western society perceives this an accurate one? please enlighten me if not)

If so, the whole idea just seems quite flawed to me.

We can behave in ways that we think will produce a desired behaviour in another, but this is not control(ling) - and besides, I would say this is an extremely common thing in social interactions.

In this pocket of thought do people not understand that individuals are responsible for their own actions?

Now granted, we can assume how an individual will respond in a given situation, and act on that, but regardless of what sensory information someone can be presented with, it is their own brain that makes whatever decision it makes - making the whole idea of manipulation redundant and nonsensical, with how commonly people engage in said behaviour - I would go so far as to say almost all social interaction comes with a faint idea, or some dull sense at least, of how person(s) might react - or is this just me?

Or perhaps, is it only 'manipulative behaviour' when combined with a lack of empathy? Or when combined with the assumption that the person making whatever action actually thinks they are controlling people?

I would appreciate your thoughts.
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Re: M A N I P U L A T I O N

Postby crystal_richardson_ » Thu Jun 18, 2015 12:44 pm

I agree. even smiling when you meet someone, that's manipulation - it's positive reinforcement.

I think Aspd manipulation - i.e. pathological manipulation - is destructive/harmful/antisocial in its implications versus prosocial.

and that's the difference.
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Re: M A N I P U L A T I O N

Postby Reaper » Thu Jun 18, 2015 1:41 pm

Manipulation doesn't control people. It influences them through deceptive and/or abusive means.
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Re: M A N I P U L A T I O N

Postby mushybaNaNaNa » Thu Jun 18, 2015 3:16 pm

Of course it influences them, but if you do it well enough it can become a type of control.

Examples:

Negative reinforcement - Has others obey
Victimizing yourself - Controlling others perception of you, ultimately leading to them opening themselves up, which leaves them vulnerable to control
Guilt Tripping - Creating emotions of someone else in order to control their behavior toward you
Flirting/Schmoozing - One may become reliant on you for validation, and therefore you control their sense of self worth


And so on..
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Re: M A N I P U L A T I O N

Postby GoodSamaritan » Thu Jun 18, 2015 3:17 pm

Dark Soul wrote:Manipulation doesn't control people. It influences them through deceptive and/or abusive means.


You seem to have misunderstood the general meaning or tone of the post my son, or perhaps I wasn't being clear enough for you.

Let me rephrase using the word influence, instead of control.

[In the text below my definition of manipulation will be: behaviour that the individual assumes or believes will, or has, undoubtedly directly influence(d) another living being in a particular, specific way.] - (Crystal, would you agree with that definition?)

It is the individual's brain that decides how the individual acts/reacts to whatever external stimuli, so the whole notion of manipulation as some ability or behaviour that someone could somehow [*do* to somebody] with certainty is kind of nonsensical, as it is all in our own head, we never know how anybody will act/react, it is a guess at most.

For example, a thing that somebody could *do to somebody*, is hit them over the head with a wrench, or take their fingernails off. These are actual actions, real physical events that actually occur.

A thing that somebody could NOT *do to somebody*, is directly influence them into a particular behaviour with certainty. We can assume how they will react to a certain event or situation, and influence our own behaviour with that very thought or assumption, but we never actually directly psychologically influence them. Their actions and reactions are all their own.

You feel me, my son?
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Re: M A N I P U L A T I O N

Postby mushybaNaNaNa » Thu Jun 18, 2015 3:21 pm

The thing with physical abuse is that it is evident, and easier to avoid, whereas emotional manipulation is more subtle, and can have a long lasting effect on the psyche.

As can physical, but at least you know it is happening right when it happens, and you can try to correct it.
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Re: M A N I P U L A T I O N

Postby GoodSamaritan » Thu Jun 18, 2015 3:28 pm

mindfunkmmMM wrote:The thing with physical abuse is that it is evident, and easier to avoid, whereas emotional manipulation is more subtle, and can have a long lasting effect on the psyche.

As can physical, but at least you know it is happening right when it happens, and you can try to correct it.


All 'emotional manipulation' is though, is the individual reacting to external information presented by another party, so it's kind of #######4 - you read me, alpha bravo?

Physical abuse is real actual abuse - it is a two-way thing, one party actually physically damages or violates another party.

In the case of psychological abuse however, specifically 'manipulation', it is only ever a one way thing. The individual is the only thing deciding how the individual acts / reacts to stimuli, and what it experiences etc.
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Re: M A N I P U L A T I O N

Postby mushybaNaNaNa » Thu Jun 18, 2015 3:44 pm

It's kind of what? I couldn't read it

I guess i kind of get the two-way vs one-way thing.. i just see it as more controlling. Maybe it is because i am a bad fighter. Maybe i value my own mind more. Or maybe, I know it can get you anything you want in the world, as you can become whoever you desire, and manage impressions to the point where you are basically the puppet master
Last edited by mushybaNaNaNa on Thu Jun 18, 2015 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: M A N I P U L A T I O N

Postby crystal_richardson_ » Thu Jun 18, 2015 3:45 pm

wow this is the second time i responded wrong to a thread cuz i read the thread stupidly lol.
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Re: M A N I P U L A T I O N

Postby mushybaNaNaNa » Thu Jun 18, 2015 3:48 pm

*mod edit*
Last edited by Ada on Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: .
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