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BPD and ASPD.

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Re: BPD and ASPD.

Postby Vivien Mathilde » Sun Aug 10, 2014 1:07 pm

Bree09 wrote:Just wondering how the above would work if even possible as the chances seem more likely to cancel each other out as disorders really…
I mean, what would the signs even be as one is emotionally unstable and the other.. well..
Im just curious honestly.


uh, more like complementary .. and not in a good way. The areas one doesn't f*** you up, the other fills the spot.
Imagine this: normally you have no sense of guilt, never experience sadness and so on. But when the "borderline" strikes, you feel EXTREMELY strong emotions AND mostly for no reason whatsoever. [Mood disorders sure help but i'm pretty sure it's mostly borderline's fault] so, one day you can be the most cruel person to people who love you wholeheartedly, and the next day, you can cry a river because wallpaint is eggshell and you don't like eggshell and you have a feeling you're being very unfair to the eggshell.
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Re: BPD and ASPD.

Postby mariposa3 » Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:39 pm

Vivien Mathilde wrote:
Bree09 wrote:Just wondering how the above would work if even possible as the chances seem more likely to cancel each other out as disorders really…
I mean, what would the signs even be as one is emotionally unstable and the other.. well..
Im just curious honestly.


uh, more like complementary .. and not in a good way. The areas one doesn't f*** you up, the other fills the spot.
Imagine this: normally you have no sense of guilt, never experience sadness and so on. But when the "borderline" strikes, you feel EXTREMELY strong emotions AND mostly for no reason whatsoever. [Mood disorders sure help but i'm pretty sure it's mostly borderline's fault] so, one day you can be the most cruel person to people who love you wholeheartedly, and the next day, you can cry a river because wallpaint is eggshell and you don't like eggshell and you have a feeling you're being very unfair to the eggshell.


It's true where one trait if off the list, some trait in the opposing disorder becomes the replacement

BPD and ASPD do become interconnected. I have very shallow emotions. They are very intense (not like those who are only BPD) and last a short period of time. I am angered easily, impulsive, and don't have any regard for how others feel when I act in an inappropriate manner. When I go into a depression, I don't necessarily always feel sad. I mostly become more bored, fatigued. More empty than usual. The sadness comes, but as I said.. Does not stay long. In a manic episode? You best watch yourself and stay out of my catastrophic path. My self confidence is always high, even in a depressive episode. I think less of myself, but still feel superior to others.

I hope this answers some of your thoughts.
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Re: BPD and ASPD.

Postby ashc » Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:58 pm

All of the above sounds extremely Borderline.
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Re: BPD and ASPD.

Postby twistednerve » Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:16 am

ashc wrote:All of the above sounds extremely Borderline.


I'm with ashc. You might have received an ASPD diagnosis, but that entire behavior is (including the bipolar commorbity that will happen in most people with) BPD.

But BPDs are ASPDs. They still disrespect people and laws to get what they want/do what they want.
An ASPD, like stirned said, would be a more "masculine" version of a BPD. Still a wreck of anger, self entitlement, manipulative, exploitative, egotistical, believes to be superior but has low self esteem, suffers from feelings of emptiness, etc.. but more collected, pragmatic, and doesn't get a kick out of playing the victim nor does it feel like one. And less likely to engage and be triggered by learned helplessness or other more feminine concerns, such as dating, feeling protected, kids, masoquism, etc..

ASPD = whatever causes the cluster B disorder, but with a more masculine hormonal make up (also deeply increased)
BPD = more feminine hormonal make up (also a volcanic eruption of hormones).

I believe NPD and HPD are the same disorder, under different prisms... Maybe commorbities. Narcissism and histrionics are found outside NPD and HPD, so they are personality traits. The person with NPD/HPD ("the cluster B disorder") probably just has it amplified when they're hit by the exaggerated bizarre stick of cluster B madness.
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Re: BPD and ASPD.

Postby ashc » Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:59 pm

@Twisted nerve:

But BPDs are ASPDs. They still disrespect people and laws to get what they want/do what they want.


I don't agree with this. Stirner thinks the personality disorders are gender specific, but there are borderline men and antisocial women. I think someone who violates and disrespects the rights of others and laws is AsPD .Borderline PD doesn't mention anything in the diagnosis criteria or description of the disorder about violating laws. Antisocial have a deep underlying issue with respect and responsibility as well. Borderline PD is really an issue of chaotic emotions and a fear of abandonment with a possibility of self-harm. Nothing about the disorder is associated with criminal activity. Stirner is wrong in this aspect. Most of the women in jail and prison are diagnosed with AsPD and AsPD only.
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Re: BPD and ASPD.

Postby twistednerve » Fri Aug 22, 2014 1:02 pm

ashc wrote:@Twisted nerve:

But BPDs are ASPDs. They still disrespect people and laws to get what they want/do what they want.


I don't agree with this. Stirner thinks the personality disorders are gender specific, but there are borderline men and antisocial women. I think someone who violates and disrespects the rights of others and laws is AsPD .Borderline PD doesn't mention anything in the diagnosis criteria or description of the disorder about violating laws. Antisocial have a deep underlying issue with respect and responsibility as well. Borderline PD is really an issue of chaotic emotions and a fear of abandonment with a possibility of self-harm. Nothing about the disorder is associated with criminal activity. Stirner is wrong in this aspect. Most of the women in jail and prison are diagnosed with AsPD and AsPD only.


He doesn't believe they are gender specific. But they adere to gender archetypes (and I believe in it. Put some male hormones on that person, and it becomes ASPD. Some female, BPD. But the gender itself can be either.)
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Re: BPD and ASPD.

Postby ashc » Fri Aug 22, 2014 1:11 pm

twistednerve wrote:
ashc wrote:@Twisted nerve:

But BPDs are ASPDs. They still disrespect people and laws to get what they want/do what they want.


I don't agree with this. Stirner thinks the personality disorders are gender specific, but there are borderline men and antisocial women. I think someone who violates and disrespects the rights of others and laws is AsPD .Borderline PD doesn't mention anything in the diagnosis criteria or description of the disorder about violating laws. Antisocial have a deep underlying issue with respect and responsibility as well. Borderline PD is really an issue of chaotic emotions and a fear of abandonment with a possibility of self-harm. Nothing about the disorder is associated with criminal activity. Stirner is wrong in this aspect. Most of the women in jail and prison are diagnosed with AsPD and AsPD only.


He doesn't believe they are gender specific. But they adere to gender archetypes (and I believe in it. Put some male hormones on that person, and it becomes ASPD. Some female, BPD. But the gender itself can be either.)



Oooh. I see what you mean.
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Re: BPD and ASPD.

Postby twistednerve » Fri Aug 22, 2014 1:38 pm

ashc wrote:@Twisted nerve:

But BPDs are ASPDs. They still disrespect people and laws to get what they want/do what they want.


I don't agree with this. Stirner thinks the personality disorders are gender specific, but there are borderline men and antisocial women. I think someone who violates and disrespects the rights of others and laws is AsPD .Borderline PD doesn't mention anything in the diagnosis criteria or description of the disorder about violating laws. Antisocial have a deep underlying issue with respect and responsibility as well. Borderline PD is really an issue of chaotic emotions and a fear of abandonment with a possibility of self-harm. Nothing about the disorder is associated with criminal activity. Stirner is wrong in this aspect. Most of the women in jail and prison are diagnosed with AsPD and AsPD only.


He doesn't believe they are gender specific. But they adere to gender archetypes (and I believe in it. Put some male hormones on that person, and it becomes ASPD. Some female, BPD. But the gender itself can be either.)[/quote]


Oooh. I see what you mean.[/quote]

Most serial killers were diagnosed with BPD.
And they commited the ASPD diagnosis criteria left and right.

Also, ASPD is the one most likely to be associated with psychopathy?

Why? They're all the same thing!
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Re: BPD and ASPD.

Postby ashc » Fri Aug 22, 2014 2:02 pm

Nah . I understand the difference. Also, I see how a person with BPD would be more likely to become some crazed serial killer due to their deep rooted fear of abandonment and chaotic emotions associated with this underlying fear. A pwBPD might be more likely to become a serial killer, but a pwAspd is more likely to become a career criminal. The person with AsPD kills for different reasons than the the pwBPD. AsPD- money, sometimes anger problems ; BPD- emotional chaos and phucked up head.

Belle Gunness was a serial killer, but she would have been diagnosed with AsPD without a doubt.

http://murderpedia.org/female.G/g/gunness-belle.htm

"Lamphere said that Gunness was a rich woman, that she had murdered 42 men by his count, perhaps more, and had taken amounts from them ranging from $1,000 to $32,000. She had allegedly accumulated more than $250,000 through her murder schemes over the years—a huge fortune for those days (about $6.3 million in 2008 dollars). She had a small amount remaining in one of her savings accounts, but local banks later admitted that she had indeed withdrawn most of her funds shortly before the fire. The fact that Gunness withdrew most of her money suggested that she was planning to evade the law."


People with AsPD are more likely to commit fraud, theft, robbery, etc- antisocial behavior. They murder as well.

BPD is known to feel remorse for the things they do , but psychopathic people lack a conscience and any remorse. There is definitely a difference. I don't know if I've met anyone with AsPD that feels guilt or remorse, even the most horrendous crimes, no remorse.
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Re: BPD and ASPD.

Postby jipped » Fri Aug 22, 2014 2:09 pm

Ash that was some good stuff. I was reading people with npd are often the real "psychopaths" I can't get adefinite answer anywhere. I was curious what you tthought.
Dx-NPD with strong ASPD traits.

"In a prison environment, you would be labeled a psychopath"-psychologist
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