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A clarification on Idealism

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A clarification on Idealism

Postby crystal_richardson_ » Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:36 pm

It has come to my attention that some of you think me idealistic. Whether or not this is true, I think some of you require clarification as to what idealism is.

There are three ways to think about the world that readily come to my mind:

1) How the world is (Realist)

2) How the world should be (In its purist form - Idealist)

3) How the world could be

To me, an Idealist is someone who exclusively practices number 2. They have ideas about how the world should be, but a poor understanding of how the world is and how it could be, so their ideas show little relation or consideration for numbers 1 and 3 and can thus appear delusional.

To me, the most important (and difficult to acquire/develop) way to think about the world that one must have solid skill or knowledge in is not how the world should be nor how the world is but how the world could be. Because to know and understand how the world could be is to know and understand then whether one's ideas regarding how the world should be are realistic - or idealistic and therefore impractical or unimplementable.

In other words, if steps can realistically be taken in the direction an idea, then that idea ceases to be idealistic in the strict sense. It enters the realm of the realistic and possible.

But we all disagree on what is realistic and possible don't we? Most of you are simple people. You don't want to die for other's happiness or safety or whatever, or give up what you've worked so hard for, so you are quick to see the steps that are possible to achieving an idea as "idealistic", and thus said idea also "idealistic". But you must understand, that such ideas are not idealistic in the instance, but rather YOU are not willing to do what it takes to realize them. This is a deficiency of you (or more abstractly the society that made you deficient) not the ideas.

Humans are capable of great things collectively. History attests to this. So a rebuttal that what this^ asks of you is "beyond the capacities of humans" is invalid. The ideas are not idealistic, they are realistic, what is lacking is YOU. You want the easy road. And are willing to let others suffer at the hands of a few humans with a pathological need for power to maintain your easy life.

But let me tell you something. You're going to die. And that will be the end of your existence.

Yet given this inevitability, you still take the easy road, and choose to prolong your death and avoid a short life and momentary suffering at a chance to realize good ideas, for a mediocre slightly less short life where you die anyway...

It's irrational people.

- Now post a humorous meme to avoid the distressing content of this post and get yourself back to feeling nothing you zombies.
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Re: A clarification on Idealism

Postby Macaria » Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:00 pm

You are proving the point that you are idealistic. People prevent things being how they 'could be' as you term it, people will always do this, so therefore you really are talking about what it 'should be'.
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Re: A clarification on Idealism

Postby katana » Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:20 pm

Actually, a genuine realist is a mixture with an emphasis on 1. and 3.

A person who is purely 1. is a defeatist,
a person who is purely 2. is an idealist with no practical grounding (partially removed from reality.)

a person who recognises all three but likes to focus on 2. and has more interest in theory than practice could be described as a visionary thinker/dreamer.

a person who recognises all three but likes to focus on 3. and has more interest in practice than theory could be described as a visionary do-er/person who makes things happen.

a person who recognises all three but likes to focus on 1. is likely to be a traditionalist/not a visionary of any kind, and their interests probably lie elsewhere.

Its not really possible to focus on 3. realistically without acknowledging 1. and 2.
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Re: A clarification on Idealism

Postby crystal_richardson_ » Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:30 pm

^That's very good. I agree.
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Re: A clarification on Idealism

Postby katana » Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:47 pm

crystal_richardson_ wrote:^That's very good. I agree.


So how do you identify?

I like to think I have leanings towards 3. but because of my social issues I still fail to actually act on changing anything.

I'm interested in changing and challenging ideas because it often makes sense to, and because its a challenge and its interesting. The end result is often beneficial to others, and that benefit is something I can focus on as part of the thinking process, but I'll admit that's not my own driving motivation just part of doing a good job with forming the idea.
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Re: A clarification on Idealism

Postby crystal_richardson_ » Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:00 pm

I would say all three Katana, and very strongly, but each will take a particular prominence at different times.

At my best I am balancing all three perspectives.
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Re: A clarification on Idealism

Postby StreetSaint » Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:39 am

What is your political standpoint? Fascist, Anarchist, Minarchist, do you want a church or government led country/world?
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Re: A clarification on Idealism

Postby Mr. No One » Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:50 am

Thx for the clarification.
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Re: A clarification on Idealism

Postby MrOmega » Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:49 pm

crystal_richardson_ wrote:It has come to my attention that some of you think me idealistic. Whether or not this is true, I think some of you require clarification as to what idealism is.

There are three ways to think about the world that readily come to my mind:

1) How the world is (Realist)

2) How the world should be (In its purist form - Idealist)

3) How the world could be

To me, an Idealist is someone who exclusively practices number 2. They have ideas about how the world should be, but a poor understanding of how the world is and how it could be, so their ideas show little relation or consideration for numbers 1 and 3 and can thus appear delusional.


Sure... Everyone is an idealist. Delusions are the best we can get to what is truly real. I'm color blind, you see colors, that's only one place where our "delusions" or different view points change how we see things.

Axiomatics is where we agree.

crystal_richardson_ wrote:To me, the most important (and difficult to acquire/develop) way to think about the world that one must have solid skill or knowledge in is not how the world should be nor how the world is but how the world could be. Because to know and understand how the world could be is to know and understand then whether one's ideas regarding how the world should be are realistic - or idealistic and therefore impractical or unimplementable.


Wow, are you like a class valedictorian or something?

crystal_richardson_ wrote:In other words, if steps can realistically be taken in the direction an idea, then that idea ceases to be idealistic in the strict sense. It enters the realm of the realistic and possible.


Where it further deludes everyone else's reality.

crystal_richardson_ wrote:But we all disagree on what is realistic and possible don't we? Most of you are simple people. You don't want to die for other's happiness or safety or whatever, or give up what you've worked so hard for, so you are quick to see the steps that are possible to achieving an idea as "idealistic", and thus said idea also "idealistic". But you must understand, that such ideas are not idealistic in the instance, but rather YOU are not willing to do what it takes to realize them. This is a deficiency of you (or more abstractly the society that made you deficient) not the ideas.


Pessimism, yeah, I hate that.

crystal_richardson_ wrote:Humans are capable of great things collectively. History attests to this. So a rebuttal that what this^ asks of you is "beyond the capacities of humans" is invalid. The ideas are not idealistic, they are realistic, what is lacking is YOU. You want the easy road. And are willing to let others suffer at the hands of a few humans with a pathological need for power to maintain your easy life.

But let me tell you something. You're going to die. And that will be the end of your existence.

Yet given this inevitability, you still take the easy road, and choose to prolong your death and avoid a short life and momentary suffering at a chance to realize good ideas, for a mediocre slightly less short life where you die anyway...

It's irrational people.

- Now post a humorous meme to avoid the distressing content of this post and get yourself back to feeling nothing you zombies.


You totally lost, me. I have ADHD as a defense mechanism.

http://www.adhdezine.com/Apr01.html#Defense

Freud talked about how repression, suppression, or denial, are ways of keeping noxious thoughts and memories out of one’s consciousness. That is, they are attentional avoidance mechanisms that work just like ADHD.


You sound like you are fear mongering. Works sometimes I guess.
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Re: A clarification on Idealism

Postby DayWreck » Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:51 pm

crystal_richardson_ wrote:It has come to my attention.


And just as rapidly left mine.
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